Perhaps you could say more and share some of these stories that you encountered through the research.

Yeah, I think this gets to one of the key themes of my piece, which is what makes a city alive and what makes it dead.

The underlying conceit of urban revitalization projects is in the word revitalization.

It's that something that was not vital, something that was not alive now is going to be made alive through this.

And something that I point to in the piece is that when you are looking through the lens of capital, for example, then you see, you walk down Ngara Road as it was before, and it looks very much debt because there's not a lot of business happening or there even the people like Steve Agri in the piece who you know back in the early 2000s or late 90s used to visit Ngara I think many Kenyans have memories of going to Ngara for you know for these snacks for shedra in this case and to go to all the fabric stores why did that go away and why did Ngara kind of become a shell of what it was I think I do explain in the piece why almost at the same time it feels like in the 90s and early 2000s, so many cities in the world kind of fell into decay.

This was also happening in the US.

It was happening around deindustrialization.

both from these projects, Sarakasi Dome, but also from other works that you've done in Madara and across Nairobi, but also like from your other reading and engagement with the literature and why sometimes, yeah, why Sarakasi Dome work the way it is and like in this appreciated and yeah, broadened that conversation to be about public participation.