Right

... like, where people are charging, the majority of the charging is happening, um, you know, in the middle of the night.

If you're working from home, maybe in the middle of the day.

But actually, people are sitting around for, like, 12 to 15 hours with their cars at home, and are only charging for anywhere between two to three hours.

And so that creates immense flexibility, right? Like, you have the ability to take that two to three-hour period and shift it anywhere in that 12-hour period where the car is sitting at home.

And that's essentially the game of Tetris that we're playing.

So we're talking to the sensors in the car, and we're talking to the controllers and actuators in the cars and the chargers, such that we can then send a signal appropriately telling each vehicle to be coordinated in that sort of Tetris block way, such that you and your neighbor and your next person in the block aren't charging at exactly the same time, but you're charging in just enough of a modulated way.

So I guess like how do you see the industry kind of like shifts and like what are some opportunity that you felt like people were kind of like overlooked?

So, so DER for a start, why don't, why don't you just explain what a DER is?

Absolutely.

Yeah, it's one of my, uh, favorite terms that I hate to hate, I love to hate rather.

Um, a DER is a distributed energy resource, and that can mean many different things to many different people.

Uh, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

And so for the most part though when I talk about distributed energy resources, we're talking about batteries, electric vehicles, sometimes things like thermostats, and so on and so forth.

The problem with the term in my view is that just because something is a distributed asset or a distributed or customer-owned resource does not necessarily mean it is providing value, and so this concept that everything is a distributed energy resource, quote unquote, is actually not true.

And so, is there a sense in which the technology can do whatever it likes, but that's the, the job of winning over hearts and minds, is the difficult part? And no matter how good the technology is, unless you can do that job of persuasion, you're not gonna get adoption, you're not gonna get to where you want to be and where you could be, in theory, with the technology that you've got.