Can you give us a s- bit of background as to how they got to Australia, where they came from in Germany, what the impetus was for them to come to Australia?

Sure, sure.

I chose them carefully, Michael.

My father was born in Strasbourg in nineteen sixteen, so it was German for a few years.

And then, of course, after the First World War became French, and consequently, his first experience of being a refugee was moving from Strasbourg into Germany.

I think they went to Nuremberg and lived there.

My mother, on the other hand, came from Northern Germany, now Russia, a place called Königsberg.

Individually

And why is legal privilege challenging for integrated service providers?

The reason why legal privilege is challenging for integrated legal assistance service providers is because of the nature of the service provided.

If, let us say, a woman goes in complaining about a family violence issue and is seeking legal advice, and it's obvious that she also needs advice about housing, and she speaks in the same room to a lawyer and also someone who specializes in providing housing, a social worker, then there's an argument about whether her purpose in seeking the advice is legal advice or is it housing advice.

And because it's not easy to determine in that situation what the dominant purpose is, there is a threat that the legal privilege won't apply because she has spoken seeking advice not only to a lawyer but to another health practitioner, be it a social worker or any other expert who is needed to cater for her situation.

This is how Justice North describes it.

Well, a client does face a disadvantage, a catch-22, when it comes to accessing free legal advice and help because if they seek to rely on their legal privilege and don't want it compromised... then they're restricted to talking only to the lawyer about law, about their legal advice, and they can't really tell their whole story to the other people in the wraparound service, doctors or whomever it is that they really need.

If they talk about everything, the danger is that they lose legal privilege.

If they don't talk about everything, then they lose the wraparound service.