Yay! So how in this change mandate world do we present a rigorous and optimistic path when that path may very well be, sorry, you're not part of this new future?

Yeah, well, let's break it down, Drew.

This is a really, really important conversation.

So if we just use our overly simplistic structure here, what does honoring the past look like in this moment? So unless you're burning the whole organization down and starting over, there are some things you are preserving tangible and intangible.

That may be the mission of the organization, the values of the organization.

You're not firing everyone.

They're capabilities of the organization.

Talk a little bit about what a trust wobble is and why so many leaders miss them until it's too late.

But do you think generally leaders should encourage their folks to invest their time and effort into this, or what, what's your take on that?

Yeah.

So I think I agree with your, uh, I don't know if we-- if, if it's strong enough to be a premise, but your suggestion that personal branding might have a branding problem, and I think part of it is when we hear that word, and that is no fault of the people who created the term.

It's term of art, a very reasonable thing to call, like, this phenomenon.

It reads as self-distracted.

It reads as self-promotional versus, you know, how do I get better at advancing our shared mission? Like, if we go back to our trust triangle, it raises questions about empathy.

You know, it seems to be the phrase and the way people hear it, it sounds like, okay, authenticity, yes, and maybe, maybe a little logic.

[laughs]