So when an organization hires you to do public engagement on a housing project, what are some typical issues that would come up?

Well, there's a couple of different stakeholders in the space.

So I'll start with the with the clients of the organization that hires us.

Typically, what we see most of who we work with in this space are our nonprofits who are having the opportunity to create affordable housing, some of them for the very first time, which can be quite an intimidating learning curve for an organization who maybe has been providing housing.

shelter services or other types of services, but has never had to actually go through the process of putting together a capital stack and getting their land development permit and then going through construction.

A lot of those organizations are, as most nonprofits are, wearing six different hats at the same time.

And so they might not have the organizational resources or experience to do public engagement and research in-house.

We talked a lot about the nonprofits, but what has been your like kind of experience with the municipalities in general? Like are they at the counselors and that, like, are they generally, is there still, are there still also a lot of questions or doubts about different types of housing or do you feel like things are changing or how is that?