Yeah, where does the story end? What was your perception of Carla towards the start of the season? Because watching it at home, it did seem that Carla basically got off by just being kind of like underestimated, I

suppose.

So I didn't...

Yeah, I didn't really have much interaction with Carla.

It was like Diego.

I didn't have much interaction in the castle.

It's only when the numbers started to dwindle and...

Now, we know it's notoriously difficult as a same-sex couple in this country to have children, especially if you want to have children a very specific way there's loads of options that are there but they're not as easy as people think so people may say oh you can adopt oh you can do this oh you can do surrogacy oh you can it's not it's not that simple so you have spoken about IVF yes so do you want to tell us a little bit about your story with that

You learned that you could lead in this show.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what I always said going in.

I was like, I'm not going to say anything at the roundtables.

I'm just going to see how things go.

And then being in there is just completely different to the way you think you're going to play the game.

Like, everything you think you're going in with and any strategies, any anything...

How are you doing?

But we ended up finding this beautiful story from Anna Murphy, who was telling that story very much from how do you become part of community? What is that like when you are an outsider? So this is a wonderful story from Anna Murphy.

Nobody likes me.

Everybody hates me.

I think I'll eat some worms.

That was a little story rhyme that I have repeated many, many times, and I learned it at school in England.

I grew up in England, and when I was seven, we moved to Dublin, which was a huge trauma, big transplant from an English-speaking primary school into a convent, speaking Irish, reciting prayers in Irish.

We thought we'd landed on another planet.