"But surprisingly," he said, "even as the industry has scaled way up over the years, it's retained a fair amount of seediness at its fringes."

Like, it's such a vast industry, PJ.

It has so many characters kind of going in and out, playing various different parts, that, like, being taken for a ride, getting fooled is remarkably common.

You know, just down the road where I live, I mean, I, I live in the part where, like, most of the production companies are.

Like, if I go and grab a coffee right now while I'm still on this podcast with you at a local cafe, I'll just see, like, some really shady guy trying to, like, meet another person, and they wouldn't know who's trying to scam whom.

You know? They'll, they'll all talk like, "Oh, yeah, we're gonna make, like, this big Bollywood film," and, "Oh, I know this one.

Oh, yeah, that one I worked with that..." I mean, they, they'll all be name-dropping.

I see.