Are too many companies just looking at AI as the primary cost cutting rather than growth? What's got to be done to switch that around, to say, hey, no, it's going to be a growth tool and it's going to be a creative to adding more people?

Well, there's two things that we've seen just in our research and with companies that we're watching, those who are actually measuring it.

And It's going to become costly for people just to think about AI and not really following up on the efficiency.

We're seeing the cost of tokens right now.

We're seeing the budgets that public companies are coming with.

So I'm already seeing CFOs are saying, let's pump the brakes on this.

What are we using this AI for? To what end? And when we start getting smart about that and asking those questions, you're going to see that people are pushing more to revenue.

How does that manifest itself? So

Let's talk about some of them, 'cause going through the report, there are a couple of really weird outcomes.

Yeah.

So the example we give is that New South Wales has a bushfire.

It has a bushfire, it has expenses, and we...

this is an, you know, stylized example obviously to make it easy.

A hundred million dollars extra, uh, uh, expenses associated with this bushfire.

I'm sure New South Wales is going, "We wish that was all it would cost," but say it's a hundred million to make it easy.

What do you recommend we do?

Remind us, what exactly was the Productivity Commission tasked to do in preparing this report?

Yeah, so it's a good question, Luke.

Uh, we were tasked through the 2018, uh, legislation which introduced the reforms to undertake a review of those reforms by the end of this year to look at whether or not they were meeting their intent, intent, whether or not they were working efficiently or effectively.

Now, these reforms fundamentally changed the way in which the Commonwealth Government distributes GST revenue to the states and territories, uh, introduced a floor in tho- those arrangements to guarantee, or that all states would receive at least zero point seven five, uh, relativity compared to other states, uh, introduced a standard state benchmark so that no state could fall below the share received by the fiscally stronger of New South Wales or Victoria, um, and also topped up the pool of GST distributed to the states to ensure or to try to ensure, didn't quite succeed, that no state would be worse off as a result of these reforms.

Now, we found that, in fact, uh, the only state that is better off from these reforms has been Western Australia to the tune of around twenty-three billion dollars in the first six years of operation, and that other states would've in fact, been worse off had it not been for the No Worse Off guarantee, which is currently costing the Commonwealth Government and Commonwealth Government taxpayers, uh, uh, around six to seven billion dollars a year.

Have you communicated that to the federal government?

Look, um, I'm not gonna go into the sort of discussions that we have, um, or not.

I mean, the, the other things that obviously have occurred this week also include that we have felt the need to, to clarify is that the Prime Minister has made comments, uh, in Western Australia around, you know, the government's intent or otherwise w-with respect to the recommendations in the report.

Does that change for this group?

So I think I'm very, very careful with my language from the first day.

So my speciality is lumbar bone stress injuries.

And with that, the children arrive quite often telling me that they've got a broken back.

Now, we know that that's so far removed from what the condition is.

And I reassure them that having looked at their scans, their little tiny hairline crack, is no longer than my little fingernail.

And it's a very, very tiny crack that's barely more than a bruise.

That might be your example, but is there... a hardest conversation you've had? Is it the rugby one or is there a different one?

So, you know, is it, how is AI helping women and does it go beyond the cognitive load?

load?I love this.

Like, I'm just [laughs] like this, this trip to Sydney has been worth it just, just to hear about that.

I know the cognitive load of what's for dinner, if I can get rid of that, my life just looks a lot easier.

Um, look, that-that's one area certainly for women.

I think for women more generally, like at a macro level, AI presents opportunities obviously, but also risks.

If we think around the jobs that are gonna be impacted through AI, they are, generally speaking, I think in female-dominated industries, twice as likely to be impacted, uh, than male-dominated industries.

[laughs] Is there anything you'd, um, add?

But before we dive into number one, I'd love you to just list off the nine for the listeners and also speak to if there's any relevance to the order.

Absolutely.

So starting with one, we did centering worker voice for a reason.

Of all the pillars, that is the one foundational one that we saw with all of the companies.

And the reason why was that once you're listening to employees and what matters most to them, and that's how we defined centering voice.

It's not about what do you want to ask them about for the business.

The question's really around what do we need to know about how you experience this job, this role that could help us remove barriers, that could help you do a better job in service of us having a more profitable business.

But I'm curious how that overlaps with hiring stars versus prioritizing credentials.

But we were jokingly on a situation where we were really tired, one of them mentioned this joke that she saw on social media that asked, "What's the worst thing that you have done for money?" And it said, "Going to work." [laughs]

[laughs] And a, and a lot of us, uh, you know, many people feel that way.

And I was talking...

You talk about a joke.

I'll, I'll share one to you.

I was talking to a friend who's a psychologist, and he said something that I went on to research.

He goes, "You know, Angela, I'm so happy that you published this book because when I see my clients for the last 30 years, the number one or number two challenge that they're always talking about is related to workAnd so I, I say that to say a lot of times people will come in, and because of the old norms of work, you know, we are not taught to talk about what are our barriers to work.

What are you seeing that it brings you hope about concrete practices that can be translated into action?

You know, small things that when you're in a

bind that have a tangible difference.

And so we kept hearing these anecdotal stories or another company that provided, you know, down payment assistance for your apartment, not just house, but just for an apartment security deposit.

A lot of them were in this financial world.

or more flexibility.

And so what we begin to do is to see a pattern of certain types of benefits and policies that we just called enablers.

And years ago I wrote, I created a framework that's called the social determinants of work, very similar to the social terms of health.

So can you say more about what that looks like and how we can share ownership and kind of start to break down some of those hierarchies, even if we work in a very hierarchical system?

What are some of the benefits you think are going to become more commonplace that we could maybe look forward to that might help us feel better at work.

Well, the first one is around caregiving.

We're seeing the most innovative companies know that childcare is a struggle.

It's a costly expense for most workers when you're thinking about that.

And so some of the most innovative companies are building childcare centers onsite.

There was one company, Guild Education, that did this during the pandemic.

they were able to retain 95% of their women executives and workers versus everyone else was bleeding women because women carrying some of the child caring responsibilities, that was hard to juggle when the school system and schedules were a bit uneven.

yeah I think people are afraid though right I mean is that legitimate too that people are afraid to say anything um that might make them appear less of a worker if uh oh I have all these problems going on at home right now and then it's like oh well then they're just going to give the project to that person or I mean, everyone in this climate of being laid off or fearing for their financial security, is it justified then? Is that the wrong approach, that people are feeling fearful to share things that might not make them seem like totally competent 24 hours a day if they're having an issue?

So that's one of the nuances you're noticing is what, am I getting that right?

That's exactly it.

When we think about our social contract for many years with the world of work, it was employer, we're paying you a salary, an hourly wage for you to do a job.

Worker, you come in and you do that job.

And the exchange is, once you get that salary...

That was the win-win, really, if we think about it then.

What we're seeing with another generation of workforce who are fast becoming the majority of our workforce is that that paycheck exchange they're saying is not enough.

the bathroom stall.