One thing that you have had a lot of success with that I know a lot of design leaders struggle with is building relationships, trusting relationships, and aligning a design team to the business's objectives, and then ultimately trying to Get those goals of different teams and different cultures to match up so you can go from, "No, we don't have time or budget or energy for that," to, "Okay, yes, this thing that is important to design is also important to the business." How do you approach that and what were the key milestones in your career where you had an unlock moment and figured out, "Ah, okay, this is how I do it"?

I love that you started with the relationships because I really do think that relationships are the foundation for everything.

The amount of generosity that you will give to a friend is just so different than the amount of generosity you would give to a stranger.

You know, ultimately when we're working together, we both need a certain amount of generosity towards each other 'cause we're human and we're imperfect and we're not always gonna have good days, and so you want that grace to be given to you and you wanna give it to other people.

From my time at Pinterest back in the day, there was this thing that we created called a knitting agreement, which is this idea of when you start to work with someone, rather than like having a conversation about how we should work together when trouble arises, kick off your relationship by talking about what matters to you, what do you care about, how do you like to interact with people? Because a lot of times if you just sort of vaguely ask people what matters to them, a lot of people are like, "Oh, I want respect," or like, "I want communication." And that is good intel, but the challenge is, is that how people want that manifested for them is really different.

For some people they might say like, "Oh, trust is really important to me, and I know that you trust me because you leave me alone." Other people will be like, "Trust is really important to me.

I know that you trust me because you tell me everything [laughs] and we're constantly talking." Often friction arises because people are starting with different expectations about how those things are supposed to manifest, and it's important to like know and then adapt your style.

Well played.