Yeah, well, I mean, maybe we could unpack that a little bit.

Yeah, well, I think, so...

I don't know what you think, but for me, having also been an environmentalist in the 80s and experienced this legacy, there was this really almost cultural revolution of the 60s gave rise to not only environmentalism, but the peace movement, women's movement, decolonizing movement, all sorts of interesting things.

They were pre-existing, but something happened in the 60s, kind of political cultural revolution.

I came in after that.

and picked up on it, but I noticed that issue after issue after issue on the environment, whales, hedgerows, the Antarctic, pesticides, heavy metals, you name it, one after the other, none of them were totally won, but victory after victory after victory in a really heady way followed the environment movement through the 70s and 80s.

As one after the other, these issues were won in their own terms, and they were won on the back of values.

And there's something, again, isn't there, about that viewpoint that you have if you have experienced what it felt like to feel those things as well as just think about