What is your formula for success and what's replicatable and what isn't, do you think?

Well, you covered a lot of ground in that in the last few moments, but you really did frame it well.

And in nonprofit journalism, where I'm looking at investing and we're building something we call Deep South Today Studios is around video.

We are in the age of video.

We are in the age of podcasts like this one that have real influence, particularly with young folks.

And so that age of video, when you think of it in terms of, okay, a TikTok video, what's that? 14 seconds, 21 seconds, less? Or you talk about what I call my new favorite program, not 60 minutes, but let's do 20 minutes.

Let's do three stories in 20 minutes for an audience that gets a 12-minute profile, a three-minute TikTok, a four-minute cultural musical assessment of the hot, hot musician in town.

What are you not lamenting about AI and just marching forward? And what concerns you the most about AI in journalism?

So

the reality is that video is the word and news is the word, information, journalism, and the component... are, who are you casting? It's really all about who's the moderator, who is the moderator interviewing, who are the two people who are talking to each other.

Can you ensure for the viewer that this is going to be worth their time? We know how to do this.

We will not allow this exchange, this debate, this disagreement be a false narrative for your experience, because the choices we're making and the reason you're coming to us is because you believe we're doing that good work first.

And it comes back to that word trust.

Oh, yeah, I know Chuck Todd is.

I've known Chuck for quite a while, going back to meet the press days, whatever.

What what do you what do you just sort of what are you not lamenting about AI and just marching forward? And what concerns you the most about AI in journalism?

Like I think, you know, they're, they're all, you know, in the same ballpark.

I agree.

I think there's a lot of similarities in this golf course to Liverpool in 2023.

That year, if you remember, like, there was still some firmness, but they had to play through rain and see heavy winds.

But, like...

What opens tend to do a lot better than PGA Tour events is neutralize the importance of distance.

And a lot of people are like, accuracy matters a ton this week.

What is a Colin sell?

you pay to be that kid?

I'm like, are you a member at all these places? Which I'm sure he's not, but his dad probably is.

I mean, there are a lot of, which I have realized, like, there isn't much of a rivalry between like NGLA and Shinnecock in the way that there is between, I don't know, Creek and Piping Rock.

Like if you're a member of Creek, you're not a member of Piping Rock.

Yeah.

They play each other in the Liberty Bowl.

There's a lot of guys that are members at NGLA and Cock, which is insane to me.

Now, that's just one person, but you were saying you watched the whole seven-hour final round broadcast, and you're telling me that a lot of guys that might not be the most elite drivers of the ball in the world were not nuking driver on every hole.

What advice do you have for those men and women still working at 60 Minutes? Where do they go from here?

That's such, such a good question.

I think back to the work.

Um, Marty Baron had a great line in a different context, but it applies to this situation.

Marty Baron, the famous, a former editor of The Washington Post.

Um, "We're at work, not at war." So go back to work.

Um, Marty was saying it about the politics of the moment in the first Trump administration.

But isn't this a problem or a big red flag that it takes away the choice?

So what are your feelings as we hit Aranamick?

I mean, uh, we've got a couple guys, um, in our Discord at the golf course today, and I ...

You know, it, it seems to me like everybody is kinda on to, you know, it's gonna be easier thing.

I, I don't think that, like, the, the scoring average being easier at this golf course than, say, Oak Hill, um, that's not sneaking up on anyone.

Um, but, but I think that, you know, it, it really is going to come down to where they put the pins in some of these greens because they have a, a ton of options.

These are really large greens.

These greens are, like, double the size of Oak Hill.

Glendale, yeah.

I'm out

...

so fifth at the Truist, 1.4 off the tee, 4.2 on approach, gained in all four major categories.

Um, fourth at Philly Cricket, eighth at Aronimic in 2018, 20th at Ridgewood.

Um, really, really good long iron player this year.

I, I, I am more tempted by the 32 to 1 than you are, but I agree.

Like it, like talking this through it, and, and it's just, it's kind of just more because like, you know, I do the major show with Steve, and, you know, I make my four picks, and I think I, I think this year I went Scotty Masters, Fleetwood PGA, Hideki Shinnecock, which is probably dead, and Jon Rahm British Open.

Sneaky good course fit

Mm-hmm.

... that just are flying around like flying saucers, uh, uh, uh, discombobulating the conversation, really up- upending a lot of what you think, you take for granted we could agree about.

How- what do you do about it? You just keep talking about it with each other every day.

You just keep saying, "Look, uh, uh, we disagree about this, but help me understand why you think that way," whatever the issue is.

Uh, in the case of, uh, the episode that we just did that's on tomorrow night, uh, the- the- the- the foundation is just first, we- we- we've got a lot in common.

We- we- we both have an, th- fortunately, an education.

We can talk about where we've come from, who we are, where we live, our children, our fa...

When?

And was there some sort of catalyst there? that forced us to go from a generation of Andy Lacks and Jeff Zuckers and Phil Griffins and Ben Sherwoods to what we got? And did that accelerate the pace of decline?

That's a tough one.

I think the core group, which I'm proud to be a part of, we pushed the journalism to the places that we knew and loved and believed in the talent that it took to do it.

And it was a joy every day to go to work and have that opportunity to make great journalism, produce great journalism.

What shifts, and it often shifts back, which is why I'm a little bit more hopeful than than others might be.

Business forces and individuals who are more business focused tend to move into these areas and they get reset and their budget cuts and their changes in confidence about the future of the work.

And I've seen that several times through the course of my career.

I wonder about how relevant that is to society at large compared to what it was in your time.

And did that accelerate the pace of decline?

That's a tough one.

Uh, I, I think the core group, which I'm proud to be a part of, uh, we pushed the journalism to the places that we knew and loved and believed in the talent and that it took to do it um uh and it was a joy every day to go to work and uh and have that opportunity to make great uh make great journalism uh produce great journalism uh what shifts and it often shifts back which is why i'm a little bit more hopeful than uh than others might be uh Business forces and individuals who are more business focused tend to move into these areas and they get reset and their budget cuts and their changes in confidence about the future of the work.

And I've seen that several times through the course of my career.

And this one is, I think, more dramatic because it is a bigger sea change going to a streaming model.

And it was tough to figure out how those news divisions were going to function in that model.

And you saw a bunch of different experiences or experiments, arguably, that didn't last very long because there wasn't enough will at the corporate levels to because the streaming shift was accelerating so quickly to allow for protecting the core assets in journalism, the way it felt to the folks who were practicing in those hallowed halls.

And now we've sort of arrived at this moment where despite all of the great work of the Nicole Wallace's and the Dana bashes, I wonder about how relevant that is to a brought to society at large compared to what it was in your time.