Mm-hmm.

And what made that episode so difficult, there were two things that made it difficult.

One was the stakes were so much higher.

I wasn't a college kid doing things you expect college kids to be doing, staying up all night, doing shrooms, drinking too much.

You're sort of in context of central casting college kid behavior.

And you're early enough in your life where there's a lot to the story to be written.

So if you can... make it through that.

It feels like where you are putting that stake in the ground and you're saying, this is how we're going to do it.

You won't find bigger fans of Oisín Finn than myself and anyone else on the team.

A hundred percent.

I don't think Finn will mind me telling this story of him actually.

So Finn and I used to work together in a company up here in Dundalk and I was out having a smoke one afternoon and he was out standing and I was wearing, I think I was wearing maybe a Mavericks jersey or Mavericks t-shirt or like a football jersey.

And he's like talking, he's like, oh, you like football, do you? I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he's like, oh, I used to play football.

I was like, oh, did you play for the Live Mavericks? I was like, oh, I coach the Mavericks, you know.

So I don't think before we played them the first time, I don't think I could have said beat these guys until we played them so yeah that'll be my answer when we played them and played them as well as we did in newry uh i think that was the first point where i thought no we we actually have a genuine chance to win it all here

So talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, I mean, that's a big part of the discussions that we have when we, from almost, I feel like cradle to grave of the sales cycle with these products is operational efficiency and costs.

It's the one thing that always comes up and it's, okay, well, how many people do I need to operate this? What's the maintenance on this? And how do I think about this from a staffing perspective? The right product that you select, and this is why we always go through the whys and the hows and working with adjacent services to really understand and get that tuned in, is the right product is going to be busy all day.

And we want that to be the case.

And it should be busy all day, adding little to no stress to the operating model, but driving ROI.

That's obviously the perfect scenario.

Um, and yeah, it's going to drive member satisfaction, retention, and net new member gain.

How different do you think this is going to look in the next three to five years?

Do you think generally men wait for a moment like that, a catalyst like that, like your experience, Andy? Do you not see it coming at all?

I think a lot of people might sense it coming, but then to actually make the decision to do something about it, I think takes a lot.

Because if you haven't had role models around you, like other men or uncles or father figures or your dad who said, oh, yeah.

I've been to psychotherapy, I've had support and it's had this.

A lot of people don't have those reference points.

So it feels it could feel trivialized.

It could feel that you should be able to cope on your own.

what is success?

What makes up a CEO pay package? When we see these headline numbers, walk me through the methodology of what you include and how ceos get paid

yeah the short answer is it's almost entirely based on equity and that could be a range of everything from restricted shares uh to stock options um some of these are tied to certain conditions you'll have some that probably most people are familiar with the idea of sort of restricted stock in the tent in the sense of maybe a vest over a certain period of years before you can sort of exercise or sell those shares.

Or some have performance options, which might be tied to not just sort of basing your compensation around equity, but adding a level if you have to hit X, Y, and Z goals to actually earn these shares.

So most CEOs in corporate America get paid probably at least 90% now in what would be called at-risk compensation.

That's just sort of what board and compensation consultants have driven the trend on, which is the argument is this aligns CEOs sort of windfalls with shareholders.

If the company does well, if the stock does well, the CEO will do well personally.

So that is 90, 95 to 99% of most of these pay packages.

How do those Golden Parachute packages shape up? Why are they constructed the way they are? And what are you seeing in those?

So I was happy to see them happy.

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Never stop competing.

Former Leinster out-half Andy Dunne joined our own Dara Smith-Knox in the immediate aftermath and he feels that Leinster caused many of their own problems.

To me, there's a rigidity in Irish coaching, a slavishness, you know, to say we will always work hard, we'll always play possession football, we'll always hold possession and more often than not we'll be successful.

Well, we will against the Dragons and the Scarlets when no one's watching in the URC but when it comes to knockout rugby, it's like everyone else has worked out that less possession, better kicking, disciplined defence, you know, a good line-out and a good scrum is generally enough and we keep doggedly going out and trying harder and we don't need to.

But is he very close to sil- silencing those doubters who said, "Don't, don't go back"?

Yeah.

I mean, he...

Uh, listen, listen, Ian.

I, I mean, I wouldn't say I was a doubter.

I wasn't...

Listen, I've, I've always been a big fan of David Moyes.

So, uh, what, what do you make of it in that respect?

Mm-hmm.

So the primary product is an app that is got events that we think you might wanna go to, communities that you might wanna belong to, and then people that we think you'd wanna meet.

And that's how it gets going.

And then what happens, and maybe you guys are in the place in your lives here where at some point you actually have a lot of friends, you have a good social life, but what sucks is it's hard to find time to see them, right? It's like hard to get out of this rat race to actually prioritize seeing the people that you care about.

And so that's where we just launched an AI agent called Penelope, and her job is both in iMessage-

Mm.

But we were inspired by what we could do.

We had a little bit of a kernel of momentum.

We've already spoken about this on a previous podcast, but I'd just like to know what your take was on the game.

Um, y- the way you'd start, obviously the, um, the context is that Paris Saint-Germain arguably, um...

Well, saying that they were, they were obviously the best team in Europe last season, and they're making a strong case for being, um, similar this season.

Again, the context is they absolutely, you know, brushed aside Chelsea in the previous round.

Um, they're obviously a very good team, and Liverpool went there without really any confidence a- in the wake of what happened at Wembley ag- you know, at Wembley, at the Etihad against Manchester City.

Um, so the defeat was hardly surprising.

But, you know, I think I'm, I'm probably just echoing what a lot of Liverpool fans, a lot of observers already said, it was the manner of the defeat that, that jarred, you know.

Yeah

it'll just be kind of business as usual?

Oh, no, no, uh, no.

I certainly don't think...

I w- I w- it, it can't be business as usual.

It, it really can't.

You know, this is a big, big announcement.

Liverpool could have, in theory, um, if they go all the way in both the FA Cup and the, um, and the Champions League, then that's 15 more games, you know? This isn't, this isn't the end of the season.

And that, and that again, as, as you say, that adds, that adds something even more to, to, to these games, which does, you know, Liverpool need to win them.

Because if you try to go toe-to-toe with Liverpool, invariably you're probably gonna get beat.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I mean, it's a common thing in the Premier League now, isn't it? I mean, I mean, let's face it, I, I know Arne Slot talks about it a lot, but it is a...

I- i- it is common in the Premier League where...

I mean, listen, i- i- it's, um, I was at the Manchester derby la- la- last week, y- you know, and United in theory...

I mean, well, they did, they, they inverted commas, "dominated" the game without dominating the game.

You know, they, they, they only had 30% possession, but looked like scoring every time on the counterattack.

... that it, it has a massive impact on the club, doesn't it?

Okay.

... about this at Bonobos, where I thought, "Oh, we are disintermediating the brick and mortar channel." And then, you know, it's a $100 pair of pants, and when I got...

We...

You know, it was sort of counterintuitive.

We sold the brand to Walmart.

When I got to Walmart, I realized, oh, something like 75% of American men would never pay more than $40 for a pair of chinos, and I had this light bulb moment of, I've lived most of my adult life in the Bay Area or New York City, and I'm so proximate to people of means that I think of $100 as a reasonable price for a pair of pants.

So I would just embrace what Guy said around, like, the, the appeal.

Hm.