And to me, um, you know, a lot of the things that he used there is, is, is to me like email or it's like subject lines and like free headers and like things like that are stuff that he's, integrating in his packaging can you get into a little bit of that let people know i guess more about jamie um what you've learned from from it and then kind of like what what pieces of that uh that you take in when you're using your copy and all that

okay cool i mean i've seen you talking about bill jane on there yeah legendary direct response copywriter he sold magazine subscriptions by mail which is crazy it means you would get a letter from what from the newsletter publisher through your door and you then have to sit down read it and then buy the newsletter which is crazy again people complain about emails and email deliverability you know it's another thing to get something through somebody's door and get them to read and what i think he he really understood on there and a lot of people have forgotten is ultimately people like to be entertained and you can be entertaining without having to turn everything up to 11.

Because you look at some of the adverts now, and they're almost, you know, they're insane.

They're pushing the boundaries so much.

Like, you know, oh, I woke up and the doctor told me I'd have to have both my legs chopped off or something.

But the trouble is, that's crazy.

You've almost got nowhere to go after that.

you have an example or a story copy gone bad or copy copy that you know a war story that affected uh the performance of the copy you're working on or the performance of the campaign

And what could possibly be wrong with knowing who's donating money to political causes? Can you explain your position on this and why it's so important?

Sure.

We live in different times now.

The acrimony in elections is obvious, and it can range from destroying people's reputations to threatening their lives.

And so there has to be some protection for anonymous speech.

In other words, people have to have vehicles where they can contribute to issue and advocacy groups like CAP and the Free Enterprise Club, where they don't have to have their names disclosed because they support the issues and the ideas those organizations stand for.

What Prop 211 does is it reaches even into the C3 and C4, those nonprofits, and forces disclosure of people who wanted to contribute to the ideas and the beliefs and the research that those organizations support when that organization in any way spends money on campaign media advertising.

I think there is a real danger there that we've seen escalate in the past decade.

And what could possibly be wrong with knowing who's donating money to political causes? Can you explain your position on this and why it's so important?

Sure.

We live in different times now.

The acrimony in elections is obvious, and it can range from destroying people's reputations to threatening their lives.

And so there has to be some protection for anonymous speech.

In other words, people have to have vehicles where they can contribute to issue and advocacy groups like CAP and the Free Enterprise Club, where they don't have to have their names disclosed because they support the issues and the ideas those organizations stand for.

What Prop 211 does is it reaches even into those C3 and C4s, those nonprofits, and forces disclosure of people who wanted to contribute to the ideas and the beliefs and the research that those organizations support when that organization in any way spends money on campaign media advertising.

I think there is a real danger there that we've seen escalate in the past decade.

Is that right?

Yes, I think in general, in most areas, not just cod prodding, people skip ahead too many steps.

You know, they try to run when they can't even crawl.

And I think often the problem is they don't know they should crawl.

Maybe they've not been trained properly or they've watched an expert do something and not seen all the other work they've had to do to get to that point.

You know, they've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

You know, they see the duck effortlessly moving across the water and fail to see its little legs.

And finally, we act emotionally.