And so are you saying that, let's say I'm in an organization, we're going through the waterfall model, and you're saying, is the next step to look at putting the team together? Or are there kind of more gradual steps to kind of get to that North Star? Yeah.

Absolutely.

If you'll immediately come to your leadership or to your team, right, and tell them, hey, guys, we're working in silos.

We're not going to do this anymore from today.

We work as a cross-functional team and we change the measurement.

Pretty soon you'll be fired.

That's simple as that.

They're not the same thing, right? They're considered different departments, right? So are you suggesting to change how the P&L is structured? in order for the CMO to have a conversation with the CFO, what are you kind of seeing or what are you suggesting in terms of changes there where the CFO is like, well, how am I going to assess marketing if marketing is doing the right thing or not?