What do you think separates a hobbyist to a professional?

It's a great question.

I don't define the two as different.

I think some of the best magicians in history have been hobbyist magicians.

For example, one of my heroes is a card magician called Ed Marlowe.

And Ed Marlowe is one of the most prolific card magic creators of all time.

He's created more card tricks than anyone who's ever lived, something like 7,000 card tricks.

And as a performer and a creator, how do you balance both performing and creating magic?

This is a this is a big deal.

Yeah, so it's funny you mentioned R. Paul Wilson.

Actually, just before I went to Serbia for the first part of this, it was never supposed to be a documentary at that point.

It was just a project I was working on to try and stop piracy.

R. Paul Wilson was staying at my house for like three days.

And he was like, you should film some kind of clips.

You should get some footage.

Can you talk a little bit about that? I mean, I don't I want to spoil the movie too much, but it was it's just there's there's a lot more that's that's going on.

For the working magician listening, what does that maths do to a career?

Well, let's take it not as Vanishing Ink, but as an individual creator.

Because Vanishing Ink, you know, we're able to withstand some form of losses in this way because we are a bigger company.

It's not good for us by any means.

But let's say you're a creator who writes your first ever magic book.

And... you decide I want to print 1,000 copies.

A magic book is going to take you almost certainly a couple of years to write, so we won't even consider the time cost of that.

How do you answer the cynic who says you were both middlemen and Andy Gladwin lost the pricing war?