It's very much every competence is enabled, but then it's kind of quite closely fought over and it's a struggle to get people things taken to the right level and there is a lot more space in the ways that you describe of power it's a much more capillary thing isn't it there's some pull and then it sort of pools together it is a much more biological metaphor but it's a very long way from the language of certainly the evolution white paper and things like that i wonder if you'd like to say something about that

Yeah.

And actually, I've just been preparing a blog on linguistic capital, going back again to integrating finance and biodiversity program that I've been working on at Middlesex University.

I was in a meeting and I heard myself say killing two birds with one stone.

And, you know, I'm a vegetarian.

I absolutely love animals and birds.

And I was like, what am I doing using a phrase like this? The list is endless of businesses that have kind of taken the name of a natural asset and appropriated the value of that in their branding.

How far are we able to use both language and also frameworks and all the rest of it subversively or for pro-social ends the word stewardship that you used right at the top i think it's fascinating you're absolutely right it conceals a lot of power dynamics you can be a steward of a place think of the duchy of cornwall doing doing things at the moment apparently royal family trying to divest from certain kinds of investments and all the rest of it it feels quite black boxy to me sort of stewardship in a way it covers a multitude of sins so very interesting thank you So keeping it positive then, can you think of a spotlight on a solution, either from the Transition Towns movement or elsewhere, that you feel has really worked well in doing the things that you've described? And just to prompt, can you think that it would be to do with the resources, the people involved, their relationships, as you said? Is it about a politics, longevity or profile? Can you think of something that, from your experience, has really worked to advance these agendas?

What is the thing that people would ask you the most? What did they want to know about the Blue Ridge Mountains?

They wanted to know why they were called the Blue Ridge Mountains and why they were blue.

They would say why they called the Blue Ridge and then they'd look and they're like, oh, they're kind of blue.

Like, yeah, they're blue.

They sort of look hazy and blue and pretty, and they liked that, but then they wanted to know, well, why? Why are these mountains blue? And there's actually a reason.

So the reason is the trees release something called isoprene into the atmosphere, and that causes them to look blue.

So the number of trees and maybe the combination of the different types of trees cause the bluish mountains to look blue.

Well, sure.