So tell us about bringing first and when you built that.

So selling my agent, had my diagnosis, realized that everything about the agency and actually everything about an agency model or that size of agency was just completely wrong for my brain.

And I think, you know, I was in quite a lucky position.

I didn't sell it for a huge amount, but I sold it for enough.

to be able to think, okay, can I actually build a business that works for my brain? Or is business and ADHD or neurodivergence just so oppositely, so opposed that it just can't work? You know, this LinkedIn vision of, we're a bit past this now, aren't we? But I still think there is some honour in burnout and hustle.

And I worked a weekend and all this, but certainly during COVID, that was, people would really, that's what I was chasing.

I was chasing the awards and the LinkedIn posts, you know, all of that thumbs on the seats.

And what are what are some of the like top three things that you kind of like have to have or this isn't going to work for a neurodivergent person?

They're not routine uh oriented they're very uh shiny light but they have a certain ability to get things to completion uh what are some of the things that you've learned in the neuroscience side of it to harness it is a positive to get stuff done not to distract you from getting stuff done

I think it's all about environmental, like how you set up your environment.

One thing I would say on the superpower conversation is quite triggering to a lot of neurodivergent people because there is, it's really hard to have that conversation without talking about like privilege and the ability to actually have, you need the, have you read Rocket Fuel, Gino Wickman's Rocket Fuel? Amazing book.

You need that implementer, you know, to be the visionary.

And all the guys you mentioned there, they all have teams of amazing implementers.

And not everyone has access to that.

I'm not talking about money-wise, you know, we're building businesses, but I really struggle to work with people.

But for people that may suffer, how has the diagnosis actually helped you?

Yeah

... why are you doing all that stuff, you know? The book and my whole philosophy is about creating a business.

We all understand the concept of client first or customer first or profit first, but my theory is that if we don't put our brains first, especially as neurodivergent people, but actually everyone, if we don't build a business with our brains at the center of it and how we uniquely operate, which is why the book is a framework, it's not a, you know, paint business by numbers, it's a framework of this is how you should start considering your brain, then we're in real trouble.

I was watching Dragon's Den last week, and there was someone on it talking about...

It was a pasta company, and they were talking about how they care about the soil.

They work with farmers who are really invested in generative, regenerative farming and the health of the soil.

And Deborah Meaden said, "I'm so glad to hear you say that, because the soil is our future.

At what point do you feel like somebody who's neurodivergent should budget for somebody else to come in?

What business felt like for you pre-diagnosis? diagnosis and awareness, and I guess what you've discovered now and what you've based your book on.

Yeah, thank you, Kate.

Well, first of all, thanks for asking me.

I feel very honoured to be the first person to do a live podcast recording with you.

I think just to kind of anchor all of this, I think the start that changed everything for me was hearing that 55% of entrepreneurs identify as neurodivergent.

But out of that 55%, 54% of them say they only started a business because the workplace couldn't support them.

It was their only realistic way of earning a living.

It's about if you're working in a business, like how are we going to like have the best productivity? Not, you know, not the fastest or whatever that might look like or the most efficient, but how are we going to have a happy, successful workplace? Create an

That's, that's impressive

... seven, seven shops and, uh, yeah, hundreds of staff and it w- it was, it was really impressive until, until it wasn't, you know? And that's such a common story, such a common thread of ADHD business owners and entrepreneurs I speak to who we, we...

And, and when the cupcake business did eventually fail or I, I became bankrupt from it, I promised myself that I would learn those lessons, and I would never do it again, and I would never chase growth in that way again.

But of course I, I did.

I went on and did it.

No, I didn't end up bankrupt, and it was, it was a much, um, smoother ride but, you know, I found myself in exactly the same position where through COVID I had a marketing agency and I gr- we left the office in the March when we were all told to go home, a team of five.

And we went back in the, it was towards the end of June, a team of 40 because we'd just grown so much through [laughs] lockdown.

[laughs]