Yeah

... you know, parallel.

So we talk a lot about that.

But the other sides to the play pyramid are the where.

So where are you playing, so indoors, outdoors, on the go.

And how to make play, how to maximize the play benefits of those different environments.

And then who you're playing with.

Yeah

Have we become too risk-averse, doctor?

I think we have.

I think there are some very legitimate concerns that parents have around letting their kids play out.

Traffic is the main one, but that's why playgrounds are so important.

We need to invest in safe, well-designed, inclusive play spaces where kids can meet other kids that they don't necessarily know already.

They can play, they can run around, they can get rid of their excess energy, their testosterone, their cortisol, their adrenaline, so that actually then they eat better, they sleep better, and they start the next day ready to, you know, take on the world.

And, and it's a virtuous circle, but if we keep the kids-- if we let the kids stay inside or if we keep them inside because we're worried about the dangers of outside, we're missing the point.

We just need to carefully push the child out in his or her back garden and let them play, don't we?

I just worry sometimes that the macro or the political opinion and the ways in which the world works around you might influence how you are and the development of children in the spaces that you're at.

So I think that's one of the reasons I was really pleased to be part of the Play Commission last year, where we took a massive, well, it's a year long project.

And there were 20 odd, I think, commissioners and I was one of them.

And we were bringing evidence in, looking at how play works in education and the digital world.

in toys and indoors, outdoors, everything.

We did this massive review and there's a really good report called Raising the Nation.

And it was supported by Paul Lindley, who used to own or founded Ella's Kitchen and then sold it and has become a philanthropist.

But has your intervention helped change marketing paths so that they basically – I would like