You have to lead them through an emotional journey.

You know, you raise a really good point.

But the one lesson I learned right at the beginning, I said to the leadership team, "Right, how about we get the team..." I, I got the leadership team on board, "...

we get this team, and we get them to go away with a blank sheet of paper and come back with this great creation of what we're gonna do." Because I said, "There'll be no leadership involvement.

It's down to you.

You're the people.

We wanna hear from you." And this was me, I think, being a little bit naive, but trying to empower this organization, who'd been kind of l- more, more of a, of a 1950s leadership prior.

If there was one thing that you could give to another leader who's just about to start a transformation program, what, what would you pass on to them?