How have they done historically? Like let's say in the last, maybe, five to 10 years, are they doing well? Are they just motoring along? Has it been an epic failure? What grade would you give the Santa Barbara City Council today?

If it was based on effort, I think they deserve a solid B for sure.

Execution, I think that they were faced with quite a few challenges, as all of us are.

They're trying to balance out getting expert advice from their city manager.

I think Kelly McAdoo is doing a great job.

I just met with her yesterday.

They have guardrails with John Doymas, the city attorney.

exactly right.