Okay, so my first question for you today is, you know, most people see a deck of cards as a game and most people, which includes me, how did you come to see it as a symbolic map of life and what first convinced you there was something deeper hidden there?

What convinced me probably there were many, well, there were many ways that I was convinced, but probably first and foremost, that I had already searched everywhere else.

I had really and truly turned over every stone seeking answers from any guru I could meet, any book I could read, any psychedelic experience I could have.

I looked everywhere for answers.

And I think that was important for me to have already done that because when I found the real meaning of the playing cards, I was still skeptical.

I still couldn't believe that the answer to the meaning of life was found in the deck of playing cards.

my Harvard-trained brain and my corporate mentality was not ready to accept that.

What do you mean by that? And how does viewing life through that lens change the way we approach challenges and success?

When did you realize that achievement alone wasn't enough?

Ooh, uh, when did I realize that? You know, that's a good question because I honestly had that inkling all along.

I, at first, never imagined myself going into corporate America as I kind of was going through my education.

I always thought that it might not be fully for me.

I always kind of had that kind of intuition, let's say.

After Harvard, I actually went to graduate school before going to Wall Street.

I thought I was gonna go into academia.

[laughs]

So would you give a little bit of an insight perhaps into once you have identified your card, what happens then?

You know, that's another very good question.

And it is a question I often get.

What do I do with this? I kind of like, so what? I'll tell you my own experience was that it resonated deeply in my beingness of my life story.

And what I hear from other people as well is that there's a validation that happens.

It's like, oh, I've been seen before.

Even though it's a card and it's a symbol and it's a pattern, there's a feeling and a sensation of I've been seen and I'm known and I'm validated and I'm not crazy.

Do you have any idea how the cards were developed? I mean, were they developed with all of this in mind or is this something that, or is it that someone has discovered the cards can be used in this way since they were developed?