And I'm curious when you think about your experiences in working with executive teams who are trying to lead through transformation, what stands out to you as things that work and things that don't work as they try to get aligned and to really take the business in a new direction? What are some of the key characteristics that you see at that leadership level that help people move from agreeing it would be great if we did that and to get aligned as a team to get it done?

Oh, this is like, it's complicated.

I could talk for hours about that.

First of all, let me start saying one thing that especially, at least for me in the past 10 years, I always work for companies that they want to go through a transformation, transformation, transformation.

This word transformation, I think we all overuse the word transformation and we tend to put in transformation a lot of meanings that not necessarily are transformation.

a turnaround is not a transformation.

A turnaround is often lately, there is this word of camouflage and people use the word transformation just to do a turnaround.

And I'm curious, especially when you're working with a publicly held company or a PE held company where there are investors who have expectations, how do you work with the leadership team to help them to have the fortitude or the courage to continue forward through those moments where it isn't so easy because things you know when you're in a retooling you talked about a turnaround or you know implementation of new technology you know sometimes things the numbers don't get hit because you're doing a lot of work to get to where you want to be in three years