How much will he be missed? Although we've got a bloke by the name of, let me think, Glenn Phillips, who can smash a long ball, can't he?

Yeah, absolutely.

No Ravindra again.

But I mean, you kind of probably say this is his weakest format.

He's a little bit like Kane Williamson in that regard, where we kind of will trade off T20s if he can be one of the best players in the world in T20s and ODIs.

You're absolutely right to bring up Glenn Phillips.

This guy is a match winner.

Who do you isolate as being the weapons grade seamer that we've got?

The two races to then getting dropped to now coming back and going, I'll fix your car and

you don't worry about it.

That's what I like Liam in the first place.

Like I say, coming up through the ranks, to go out and get a kid from New Zealand, you've got to have something behind it.

And what we've learned over the years is the technical feedback he's able to give.

There are two of them on the grid who, from what I've been told, can give feedback in real time without seeing the data.

One of them is Liam and the other one is Oscar Piastri.

In terms of when he went back to racing bulls, Do you genuinely think that by the end of this year, Red Bull had an intention to keep Liam? Or do you think they thought he was going to do terrible and they were lining up Solov all along? And then after his success this year, they were like, shit, we actually can't drop this guy.

But Plummer,

something else, right? Georgia Plummer is a really interesting one because she's been in there since she was, for all intents and purposes, a child.

And she's having to make her mistakes at the highest level.

We've seen that in the men's game.

You look at Tim Southey and Kane Williamson.

They kind of had the same thing.

But we also saw them grow into not only world-class players, but leaders within that team.

Yeah.

It, that, that Calebonga loss must be a massive disruption for the squad because they're gonna have to rethink the whole game plan because they seem to have kind of pinned it around him, hadn't they?

It's huge.

Calebonga, if you look at both codes, he is probably the best rugby footballer in the world right now.

You look at what he did for the Newcastle Knights in the NRL.

Um, you look at the leadership he brings.

I don't know if you saw, but Shaun Johnson interviewed him coming off the bus, and he did it, and then by the time he'd finished, all the Kiwis had waited for him before they went into the sheds.

Like, they were waiting because of the leader that he is.

Yeah.

That, that Caleb Pangai loss must be a massive disruption for the squad, 'cause they're gonna have to rethink the whole game plan, 'cause they seem to have kind of pinned it around him, hadn't they?

It's huge.

Caleb Pangai, if you look at both codes, he is probably the best rugby footballer in the world right now.

You look at what he did for the Newcastle Knights in the NRL.

Um, you look at the leadership he brings.

I don't know if you saw, but Shaun Johnson interviewed him coming off the bus, and he did it, and then by the time he'd finished, all the Kiwis w- had waited for him before they went into the sheds.

Like, they were waiting because of the leader that he is.

Yeah.

... aren't we, as a direct result, and you can hardly blame him.

No.

So Sam Healy, by all, all accounts, is going to leave the Warriors at the end of 2027.

Now he's only contracted to the end of '27 as it is, but he won't extend to the club, from what I understand.

Put an offer in front of him and he said no.

It wasn't about money, it was about the opportunity and the role that he'll play.

He wants to be a starting number nine.

Yeah.

How did this all start?

Oh, so you go back to sort of last year where a report was commissioned by New Zealand Cricket from Deloitte to look at what the future of T20 cricket in the country might actually look like.

New Zealand Cricket at the moment, we are the only country without sort of a franchise-based league.

So what we have, the Super Smashers run by the same people or the same associations that run every other form of domestic cricket.

And it kind of looked at what might be the best way forward.

So there were four options on the table.

Do they invest in the Super Smash, the current system that we had? Do they go and try and join Australia and have a team in the Big Bash League? Do they bring private money into the country and form a new league that way, or do they just let the status quo play out? The New Zealand cricket opted to go with the private league in Z20, but we've just learned today that Deloitte's recommendation was actually to go and try and look at exploring the Big Bash League a bit further.

Do I have that right?

And I think, and I'm pretty sure you think, Formula One have lost sight of what they are what they do and they've kind of over corrected and now it's come back to bite them in the backside, right? And welcome.

Thank you for having me.

You're right.

It was nothing short of a farce.

So obviously the 8pm New Zealand time, we had a big delay because the weather was so bad.

And so on a safety front, you think, okay, fair enough.

We have seen, sadly, drivers lose their lives in these conditions.

Do you think that's a fair thing to say?

Do we just acquiesce as well and go, "Oh, whatever, India, you do what you want"?

I, I will say one thing in In- India's defense.

They are incredible global citizens of the game.

They will...

It's not above or, sorry, below India to go and play a T20 against Japan or a series against Ireland or a series against Zimbabwe.

They might take a week inside, but they're still doing it, whereas countries like England and Australia don't do that, you know? Eng- Uh, there was put forward the idea of creating a European sort of quadrangular between England, Ireland, Scotland, and the Netherlands, and England just said, "No, we don't wanna do that because we wanna be playing better teams." So you do have to really pat India on the back for doing that.

But if this is what's gonna come of it, and I'm...

Yeah.

We'd probably do that to Kimi in a New Zealand press conference.

Yeah, I think this is kind of Ferrari's moment.

We've seen this season that they probably are the closest challenger to Mercedes.

We've seen them get wins, but Mercedes do have that lead for a reason.

If you're Lewis Hamilton, this is the time where you really do have to come out and make a case for yourself that you are a championship contender.

You've got your biggest rival at the back of the grid.

George Russell will do what George Russell does.

And have we got any word on whether or not Liam will still be in the Red Bull next weekend in Spain? How's Hadjar's hand?

It's strength everywhere.

Yeah.

I wouldn't want to do it.

I mean, I don't mind going to the gym, but you see what these guys put themselves through.

And let's not also forget, every single gram counts against you.

You want these guys to be as small as possible.

And I'm someone who likes to eat.

hasn't got a super licence, right?

How impressive was his qualifying performance?

Afternoon, Piney.

Yeah, look, I sort of can't have enough superlatives for what Liam Lawson was able to do in the early hours of this morning, and the great sadness is that, uh, the All Blacks weather's [chuckles] gonna overshadow a lot of it.

Um, and if you remember last year when Liam Lawson was confirmed in that Red Bull car next to Max Verstappen, he was given a target to be within three-tenths of Verstappen per lap.

The qualifying effort he had this morning, he was about or just over one-tenth behind Max.

So when you look at that, having had no time to prepare in this car, he had one hour on the Friday night into a sprint qualifying, into a sprint race, um, and he's just come in and he has shown there is very little between the two.

Which when you think about the quality of Max Verstappen, you gotta remember, you look at Isack Hadjar, his teammate, who's, uh, his average gap to his teammate this year is about or two, two-tenths to two-point three-tenths maybe.

Is the 2026 Red Bull more drivable than the 2025 version?

Qualifying eighth alongside Max Verstappen, how impressive was his qualifying performance?

Afternoon, Pony.

Yeah, look, I sort of can't have enough superlatives for what Liam Lawson was able to do in the early hours of this morning, and the great sadness is that, that the All Blacks weather's [chuckles] gonna overshadow a lot of it.

Um, and if you remember last year when Liam Lawson was confirmed in that Red Bull car next to Max Verstappen, he was given a target to be within three-tenths of Verstappen per lap.

The qualifying effort he had this morning, he was about or just over one-tenth behind Max.

So when you look at that, having had no time to prepare in this car, he had one hour on the Friday night into a sprint qualifying, into a sprint race, um, and he's just come in and he has shown there is very little between the two.

Which when you think about the quality of Max Verstappen, you gotta remember, you look at Isack Hadjar, his teammate, who's at his, uh, average gap to his teammate this year is about, or two, two-tenths to two point three-tenths maybe.

Is the 2026 Red Bull more drivable than the 2025 version?

Now, Alex, is getting promoted to the Red Bull racing team from the Racing Bulls team a good thing for Liam

or not? I mean, I'm going to have to correct you very slightly.

He's not been promoted.

He's a replacement.

But yes, it is a very good thing.

Promoted for the race.

You get what I'm saying.

What would be a good result for Liam this weekend? What could be celebrated? Yeah.

What is the chance? I mean, well, 'cause they've overlooked Tsunoda, who should be the backup.

Yeah, like, Yuki Tsunoda has one job, and that is to be Red Bull's reserve driver.

Um, he tried to get a bit of time away earlier this year to go and do endurance racing, and Red Bull said, "No, we need you to be our injury reserve." Um, that chance has come up, and they've overlooked him.

Um, but you're right, this is a huge opportunity for Liam Lawson.

Like, I think there's a bit of an indication that the wrist injury is quite serious because if it was just for one race, you could just leave Lawson where he was at Racing Bulls and bring Tsunoda in.

They've obviously opted to go the other way around.

Um, they need as many points as they can get because they are really in a fight to stay in the Constructors Championship, which is where teams make all their money.

What does that tell us about how they view him?

Lots of people will know it, but briefly, how did we get here with Liam Lawson?

Jeez, you wanna go all the way back.

Well, I mean, this time three years ago, the exact same situation happened to Daniel Ricciardo, or what was then AlphaTauri, now Racing Bulls.

He smashed his wrist up in a crash, and that opened the door for Liam Lawson to come in as an injury replacement.

Uh, he did brilliantly there.

He managed to get back into that car at the end of 2024 and did brilliantly then, and that convinced Red to promote him up to the senior team for 2025.

And then, of course, they decided they maybe gone a bit too soon and moved him back to, to Racing Bulls, where he sort of had to rebuild, um, his career.

Mm.

[laughs]

And just to remember how great Liam was in that race, because remember, he, he didn't have any practice time in the car.

He had, he had maybe one, a little bit of a session of practice in the wet, in a car he'd never driven.

And then into qualifying, he started last, finished 13th ahead of some genuine race winners and some, and some world champions in Fernando Alonso.

But yeah, now, here we are, what, three years down the track in this great stop-start career he's had, and he's the most secure he's ever been.

They don't understand about the money they stand to win or lose when it comes to final placings for the team.

Yeah.

So, so like you say, you get money based on how high your team finishes, not how high you finish in the driver's standings.

Do you reckon we could see an upset on this circuit, or do you think it's likely to favour the usual contenders?

I think usual contenders is the most likely outcome.

However, we did see Esteban Ocon pick up a win here a couple of years ago, driving for Alpine, who are not traditionally a top contender.

They were maybe 10, 15 years ago, but have struggled since.

Like anything can happen in motorsport, right? Like that's why we enjoy it.

But I think a safe bet would be one of the Mercedes or Ferrari cars.

And speaking of Ferrari, they seem pretty confident the circuit is going to play well for them.

But how's that going to play out for Liam, do you think?

Yeah, so these long straights, as you say, like the Kimmel Straight, is that good for Liam and the V-Carbs? They're better on the slow, tight corners, aren't they?

Yeah, but you look at what I did at Silverstone last time out.

We thought we were going to have the same problems there with recharging batteries, and the Racing Bulls cars did brilliant.

I think they have now really pulled away into this weird sort of middle ground where...

They're so much farther ahead than the rest of the field, but they're still a really long way behind the top four teams, which is, you know, it's a nice place to be if you've got, you know, Liam Lawson and Armand Lindblad able to score points consistently as that sort of best of the rest team.

Yeah, but speaking of which, what's up with the Racing Bulls going to Lindblad and upgrading his car but not upgrading Liam's?

I've got no idea, to be honest.

Like, this came through this morning that they were bringing a new cooling system to Spa.

Yeah, it's

really exciting.

The All Blacks have never really had this in the past where they have a reset two years through a World Cup cycle.

Having seen the team that they're putting out and what Dave Rooney said he was going to do, which is pick players on four-matter Super Rugby, he's done.

Ruben Love starting at 10, which I think everyone wanted to see.

Really great combination at 9 and 10 with the two Hurricanes playmakers there.

The loose forward trade is a bit of an eyebrow raiser, but Dave Rennie was able to explain it really well yesterday in saying that the numbers on the back are kind of arbitrary and they're all going to do the same job anyway.

exactly potentially kicking the balls all over the show um right let's talk about the liam lawson situation alex let's do it so rumor shut down story over

Okay, Alex, Piney says 12 by ... uh, All Blacks by 12.

I, I mean, I, I wouldn't be surprised.

You look at the quality of this French team, it's not their strongest team, but it is still very good.

You do have to look at how strong their domestic competition is.

It is the best in the world.

And like, I mean, like Paul said, the All Blacks do have a history of starting quite slowly.

But the one thing I'm actually really looking forward to is the new attack coach.

Alex, what's your problem with Cristiano Ronaldo?

Does Lindblad need to pull his head in?

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they've really had words over the last week to talk about it.

Both of them were asked about it on their overnight media rounds, and they said it's all worked out.

But you're right.

I mean, looking at the outsider, and you have to imagine there probably is a bit of frustration on Lindbergh's side.

He was meant to be sort of the shiny new toy for Red Bull, that this was his rookie year, he's going to go in, he's going to get some great results, and then eventually he'll step into that team when Max Verstappen leaves.

And when you put him and Liam Lawson side by side, it's very clear who the best one is.

A lot of management and battery harvesting around the track.

How are we? What's the story with Liam Lawson and the Spanish rumours that he's losing his place next year, Alex?

It's really taken the whole sort of driver market by storm these last couple of days, hasn't it? So obviously it came out of Spain on a, what, Wednesday morning our time, Tuesday morning our time? that Nikola Solov, the Bulgarian Red Bull back driver in F2, has been guaranteed a place in Racing Bulls next year and that'll come at Liam Lawson's expense.

I reached out to the team very quickly and they said, yeah, we don't really know anything about this.

I reached out to Liam's camp and they said, we don't know anything about this.

But the funny thing is that story has come from somewhere.

Someone has told that journalist and he's been confident enough to run it.

So you worry it might be a smoke without fire, so no smoke without fire type thing.

Does it being a Red Bull situation help Liam out at all?

What's the story with Liam Lawson and the Spanish rumours that he's losing his place next year, Alex?

It's really taken the whole sort of driver market by storm these last couple of days, hasn't it? So obviously it came out of Spain on a, what, Wednesday morning our time, Tuesday morning our time, that...

Nikola Solov, the Bulgarian Red Bull back driver in F2, has been guaranteed a place in Racing Bulls next year, and that'll come at Liam Lawson's expense.

I reached out to the team very quickly and they said, yeah, we don't really know anything about this.

I reached out to Liam's camp and they said, we don't know anything about this.

But the funny thing is that story has come from somewhere.

Someone has told that journalist and he's been confident enough to run it.

Does it being a Red Bull situation help Liam out at all?

Well, that worked well last time because they popped back and went and won a tournament.

It did.

I think we talk so often about the volatility of the T20 format, and I think that 2024 title that the White Ferns won encapsulates that better than anything.

I think player for player, the White Ferns can go toe-to-toe with anyone on their day, but it's just about making sure that they have their days more days than they don't.

There are very clearly some strong contenders in South Africa now, and then you've got the big three of India, England, and Australia.

But if the White Ferns can get their act together, which, I mean, there's no reason why they shouldn't, then the right result at the right time.

You only need one of those sort of big three of Sophie Devine, Susie Bates, or Amelia Kerr to come off, and you can be in a semifinal.

I apologise.