So what needs to change first inside that institution? So again, taking that more inwards than

outwards.

So to transform a university, especially if we even talk about traditional universities in our centuries-old high education systems, and most countries have centuries-old high education systems.

That transformation is profound because it starts and ends with people.

You transform the university by actually working with people who are actually transforming the way they think and work and building on a culture of the organization.

That's what makes it complex because entrepreneurship and innovation and creating an enterprising, innovative university It also goes hand in hand with transforming a culture of the enterprise.

And that's a more complex process than just establishing a center of entrepreneurship or an institute or even a precinct.

But how do you know when, for example, staff resistance is simply resistant to change and when it perhaps it's signaling a real problem, or maybe how can you learn to pivot in that very delicate balance?