Illustrating doesn't fill you with joy, does it, Alex? I can see that.

No, I love illustrate.

No, I love illustration, but not children's book.

I realized early on that was not my world.

So I ended up doing more editorial stuff, which was kind of more knitting related, so I did knitting illustrations.

I did one, oh gosh, it's probably gonna be like 10, 11 years ago for Pom Pom Magazine.

And I had always wanted to do books, so kind of transitioning into designing patterns, which I was doing quietly on the side while doing illustration work.

Yeah, it is a business, and I'm surprised like when I've heard about some of the rates that are paid, 'cause I've looked into teaching, and obviously the obvious thing to do is starting in the UK because I live here, to go to some of the festivals and so on here, and I'm surprised about the very low rates offered for teaching relative to what I've seen internationally, and I wonder whether that's UK-specific or whether the UK is, you know, the part of a other, the, the other group of countries, whether it says anything about the value that, that Brits place on, on learning crafts.