When did you realize that that framing was inadequate? And what did that reveal about how lawyers inside government understand the institutional role?

Well, I actually had no understanding of the interrogation program at first.

The interrogation and really detainee management and handling activities were classified as operational activities during the war, meaning that it was handled through military channels, really not through the Department of the Navy channels.

The departments, all the military departments, are entrusted with training, equipping, and then providing combat-ready forces to the combatant commanders who actually deploy the military.

So I, as Navy General Counsel, had no involvement whatsoever, wasn't even copied on correspondence or memoranda concerning anything dealing with the detainees.

including the interrogation activities.

I knew that detainees were being sent to Guantanamo.

And how do you understand the relationship between the strategic case and the moral case? And what's your sense about which one perhaps proved more effective within government?