That's

what happened.

I, at that time, the eighties, I changed because I was interested in things that had weight.

And that began to have a conflict sometimes with editors who preferred a lighter approach.

You know, more of an approach where it's the beauty of the woman and a nice portrait of the woman and kind of straight forward shooting of the women in front of you.

And I don't oppose that.

I don't think it was a bad thing, it's just the way things happen.

Can we talk about Steve Jobs' photograph?

[laughs]

You know, and I was like, "No, not quite." I said, uh, I, I said, "I booked her for an hour, so you only have to pay for her for an hour, but I, I talked her into staying all day." Now, I, I think that impressed him as much as anything [laughs] in a way, that I had talked the model into staying, you know, to do the pictures.

So anyway, he took a long time looking at the pictures, and I was just standing there.

He didn't say much.

And he grabbed, like, four or five rolls of film, different shots, and he said, uh, uh, "I'll be right back." Well, he was away for quite a long time.

It must have been about 20, 25 minutes.

I was just sitting there waiting.

Do you think that's somehow masked the 5% that you talk about that's the most important bit?