At what point did you decide or realize, I suppose, that the conservation work that you were doing needed kind of that next step in creating a business to conserve

wildlife? So I think there's no moment where these things happen.

I think Amy will probably agree that we feel like we're stumbling along most of the way and things happen and we react.

And sometimes when you stand back, you're like, wow, it looks like some great plan was afoot, but there's been very few great plans.

But I think one of the things that made me personally want to start running my own business show or organization is that I believe very, very strongly that we needed to do this in a more collaborative way.

And conservation is quite competitive by nature was it has changed quite a lot, but it was quite competitive.

And I think, you know, having just having people that are personalities who were kind of getting in the way of how I wanted to do it.

Again, we probably can't really hear everything that you've done within your amazing careers, but yeah, we'd just love to hear a little bit more about each of your backgrounds.