And so at that point, what did you think you could offer organizations that they just weren't getting elsewhere?

Good question.

What I realized, our entire consultancy is based on this really simple thing.

If you look at a lot of the work we did at the SEI, and I want to be clear, SEI I think is amazing.

And I want to also be clear, a lot of their job is actually to create theory.

And there's a problem with theory.

Theory is like a balloon and reality is like a needle.

Do you really think that there are unleadable people that are just doomed?