Good point, good point.

Now, I'm not saying that flexibility means every clinician, every person gets to decide what's right based on their own personal beliefs because that generates inconsistency and it undermines what we're trying to achieve.

So how do we use ethical flexibility? Well, fundamentally, it comes down to how we design and implement the policy as it heads downstream.

So starting from the top, we have our legislation.

The law establishes the boundaries for everyone.

That's Me in medicine, yourself in education, Tim the tool man, Bill the plumber, we're all under the same set of laws.

But where it starts to come down differently is with our professional code.

What is your vista of and for this?

So what are your interpretations, and interpretations exist differently around the world, but what are your interpretations of how we address that inequality in healthcare professionals and why indeed that inequality appears in the first place?

Okay, so, you know, like just what are the workforce shortages? So it's not just the recruitment problem, it's the retention problem, it's infrastructure, it's system design, it's for the professional, there's a degree of isolation.

So clinicians have fewer colleagues to consult, fewer opportunities to get supervised or refer.

The professional development, and this is particularly challenging for early career practitioners, the ones who, you know, I come from that town and I want to get back to that town, but that does limit what training and what you can do further.

The family lifestyle considerations.

So as I've said before, I've got a young family and a house here, but for us to move out into a rural community, that's quite challenging.

What about my partner's employment, children's education? It's hard getting children's healthcare.

So have you got a sense about how we add some greater dexterity and clarity to those three terms and really the differences between them that we need to research and encourage other researchers to explore?

Can you tell us a little bit about how you've made those decisions and the degrees you've done and the journey through learning?

Yeah, so like where does the journey start? Well, I didn't finish high school, so I suppose that's where we start.

Got through year 10, started year 11 and thought school is not for me.

I'm not vibing with the education system.

Got to get out into the world.

So... was interested in cars and I thought I can go to TAFE and go do the TVET studies and pursuing that, realized I like cars, but I don't like working on other people's cars.

It's dirty and you're busting your knuckles working with the steel and plastic and it's really hard going.

great call, isn't it? It's a great call.