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Alan Packwood
Allen Packwood OBE, Director of the Churchill Archives Centre at Churchill College, Cambridge, and author of "How Churchill Waged War" and "Churchill's D-Day".
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Oct 5, 2026
Seeking guidance from the mastermind of the Gothic Line Winston Churchill and his failed efforts to use northern Italy as a launchpad to head off the Soviets in Eastern Europe
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13:29speaker_0HOST
And so do you think that his warnings have been given proper recognition within the overall annals of World War II history and during the post-World War II period, especially during the Cold War?
Alan PackwoodGUEST
Yeah, I mean, I think the answer to that is yes, that as historians have gone into the archive, as they've looked at Churchill's own six-volume memoir of the history of the Second World War, it's impossible to read that and not to see his worries.
Alan PackwoodGUEST
Of course, it is written with the benefit of hindsight after the beginning of the Cold War.
Alan PackwoodGUEST
But it's quite clear from some of the documents that we have in the archives here that while military operations were still taking place against Germany and before the victory in Europe, Churchill's mind was already turning to the post-war situation and to the risk posed by the Soviet Union.
Alan PackwoodGUEST
And you have telegrams to President Roosevelt or telegrams to Anthony Eden after Roosevelt's death to Truman, where he uses privately some of the terminology that will become public later.
Alan PackwoodGUEST
So he will mention in these telegrams the prospect of a Third World War, or he will talk of an Iron Curtain.
Alan PackwoodGUEST
And then, of course, after the end of the Second World War, It is Churchill at Fulton, Missouri, Westminster College, Fulton, Missouri, on the 5th of March 1946, who makes that famous speech.
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16:22speaker_0HOST
So can you give us some more background about that plan and why it was titled Unthinkable and how far along did this planning go?