What about these winning issues?

Well, no, right.

But see, these candidates, my impression of them, and I can barely talk to them.

I'm at the DNC meetings.

I'm at the California Democratic Party.

Sometimes I go to other state Democratic Party meetings.

And one time, he's now a disgraced guy, Eric Swalwell, passed me by, and I was supposed to speak to him about high-speed rail.

Who stands out to you with the message that's most consistent with what Ralph is talking about?

just with a couple of key sidemen al cooper and robbie robertson and then worked with nashville professional recording sidemen and made uh what turned out to be a masterpiece so the sound is quite different from what we were used to hearing from bob dylan before this

yeah in in many respects especially when you focus on just the sound as sort of an ambience the way this Album Sounds, I think, is as great as any album in the history of rock music.

It has a much more refined type of rock music compared to what was a very folk-inflected style of electric music on Bringing It Back Home, the first in the trilogy of Dylan's three consecutive albums that were electric rock music, no longer acoustic folk music.

Of course, the whole movie was just made about that controversy last year that was hugely popular around the world, starring Timothee Chalamet as Bob Dylan.

And so this is after the New Pork Festival.

And Highway 61 Revisited sounds fantastic with the way the electric music works with his singing.

But this, I think, is even a further step up.

3AM exercise in desire and frustration.

So let's talk about that for a minute.

We shall.

And I'll go back to the economy in a moment, too.

But yes, look, the United States election system is very different than most other countries.

And there's actually a guy who writes often for Jacobin called Paul Heidemann.

He has a book out about the Republicans.

That's great.

How can we strengthen American democracy and increase participation?

Alan, thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for being here, John.

And yes, we are going to hear from Bill McKibben, and we're going to ask folks to support KPFK.

And folks, just as you consider what you should support with your money right now, think about the crisis of media.

Think about the crisis that America is in right now and recognize that Pacifica Radio, the original public broadcasting network in the country, has been going along with no support from government money.

And therefore, we know how to keep ourselves going when you give us a donation and keep us going.

And therefore, if we're going to keep free speech alive in this society, we have to keep Pacifica Radio and KPFK Radio going and alive.

Alan Minsky, you've worked with Bill McKibben for a long time.

Alan, welcome back.

Thank you so much, John.

And the name of Gene Sharp's book is From Dictatorship to Democracy.

Well, we, of course, the United States have long thought of ourselves as living in a democracy, so the book wouldn't necessarily be relevant for our situation.

But it's sad to say that I think, you know, given the trajectory that things have been on since Trump took office on January 20th, through to the present and where it's headed, we will need to practice what is outlined in this book in order to make sure that America can reclaim being a democracy and then proceed again as an open society and a democracy, because all of that is under threat right now.

And the way to proceed in the face of it is through the kind of nonviolent organizing and actions that are outlined so brilliantly in From Dictatorship to Democracy.

So we could not have a more perfect thank you gift.

So From Dictatorship to Democracy, written more than 20 years ago, says south park is a key part of what we are doing today 818-985-5735 818-985 kpfk 65 pledge and we'd love to send you as a thank you gift this wonderful book

But tell us where we stand now with Bruce and Trump.

Well, one is... one of the great, of course, figures in global rock and roll history and very distinctive as certainly among American superstars.

You definitely have some British rock and roll superstars who are associated with the working class.

But Bruce Springsteen is very much the voice of the late 20th century, early 21st century American working class.

And one could say in particular, the American white working class and the themes around community despair, sometimes directly related to deindustrialization, other times just other social crises type of issues, and also positive representations of the American white working class and working class in general.

But he is the real deal.

Trump is a phony, an interloper who exploits the pain of the working class for political advantage.

Alan, it's great to hear the voice of Bruce Springsteen, especially on this topic.