So it, it'd be interesting to talk about maybe that process of, uh, by which the American colonies were lost and how that then sort of forced Britain to sort of rethink its empire, uh, and, and move into those other areas of Asia and Africa.

Yeah.

No, absolutely.

And you are coming back to the point you made earlier that some historians draw a distinction between the first British Empire and the second British Empire, and that distinction is that reorientation.

Uh, so the, the very eminent, uh, former historian Christopher Bayly wrote about the origins of a second empire after the loss of the American colonies and a reorientation.

And that is true to a very great degree, although I, I think it's possible to, to exaggerate that.

Um, so let's...

[laughs]

Is there a diverse or diversity aspect to these two flags, would you say, Professor? Good morning.

Good morning.

I think there is now.

There didn't necessarily used to be.

I think the problem is that this Operation Raise the Colours, kind of anti-immigrant vigilantism, really, has added a new meaning to the flying of the St George's Cross that wasn't necessarily there before.

And flags intrinsically don't have any particular meaning, you know, just a pure symbol on a piece of cloth.

It's how they're interpreted.

Do you not think, in a way, and I hear what you say about the operation of Raise the Flag, this now, those who say, we're not even allowed to fly our own flag in our own country, that would just reinforce, sadly, in some areas, a view that might could be seen to be true, in part.