Talk about that.

The argument in this piece is that that's something that we should both, I think, see a bit of a silver lining in, and also be very concerned about because the politics are very nasty.

They're corrupt, they're hateful, they're very, very nasty.

On the other hand, I think what you're seeing with the Talarico race is some of the consequences of those politics, right? Ken Paxton is a criminal.

He has been under investigation for securities fraud.

He is a, uh, philanderer who then turns around and tries to castigate Democrats on moral issues.

He has waged a really aggressive campaign against trans kids in Texas, going so far, right, as to, to level sort of, uh, try to legal intimidation, uh, at places like Seattle Children's Hospital in Washington 'cause he's so determined to try to prevent any form of, of care for trans kids.

Can you talk about these dynamics?

Talk about

that.

The argument in this piece is that that's something that we should both, I think, see a bit of a silver lining in and also be very concerned about because the politics are very nasty.

They're corrupt.

They're hateful.

They're very, very nasty.

On the other hand, I think what you're seeing with the Tallarico race is some of the consequences of those politics, right? Ken Paxton is a criminal.

Can you talk about these dynamics?

Can you make that case for us?

Yeah, sure.

I mean, I actually think it's a sort of element of the same argument I'm making in the dirtbag thing, which is that genuineness is good.

Because a lot of the place that people will retreat to when they're defending dirtbagism, this is authenticity, right? And I tend to think that, well, one, I think a lot more of it is performative than they'll admit.

And two, okay, well, just saying, this is the thing where people will say, well, I'm just being honest, and then they'll say something horrible.

I mean, I guess that's a virtue to itself, perhaps, if you just really value unvarnished, unfettered honesty at all times.

Although sometimes I think it just reveals more about the person speaking than any person they're talking about.

just getting people out there with each other.

Why don't you make that case? Go ahead.

Well, uh, uh, um, part of it, I think, is a little bit self-evident, right? Donald Trump is a bad person, and he didn't hide that.

He was a candidate in 2016 who, who bragged about wanting to use force and bragged about his, uh, you know, sexual harassment of women and, and really in every way laid out that he was a terrible human being.

And you could write off 2016 perhaps as a blip, as an accident of people thinking Hillary had it in the bag and then some, you know, tiny marginal, you know, votes were around here and there in swing states and, you know, the Electoral College is weird.

Okay.

And then we did it again, right? Donald Trump was president.

He presided over a catastrophic mismanagement of a global pandemic, and then he led an insurrection to try to overthrow the election he lost, and then we put him back in power again.

That makes me despair a little bit, and I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that problem in the broader context of what you're talking about.

Why don't you make that case? Go ahead.

Well, uh, uh, um, part of it, I think, is a little bit self-evident, right? Donald Trump is a bad person, and he didn't hide that.

He was a candidate in 2016 who, who bragged about wanting to use force and bragged about his, uh, you know, sexual harassment of women and, and really in every way laid out that he was a terrible human being.

And you could write off 2016 perhaps as a blip, as an accident of people thinking Hillary had it in the bag and then some, you know, tiny, marginal, you know, votes from around here and there in swing states and, you know, the Electoral College is weird.

Okay.

And then we did it again, right? Donald Trump was president.

He presided over a-Catastrophic mismanagement of a global pandemic, and then he led an insurrection to try to overthrow the election he lost, and then we put him back in power again.

That makes me despair a little bit, and I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that problem in the broader context of what you're talking about.

Your thoughts on that?

Yeah.

So, um, from the kind of traditional political analytical standpoint, uh, the idea that he is that much underwater on what used to be one of his sort of core issues, uh, is huge.

Uh, and obviously, I think that if you were giving advice to Democrats or to any-- or to-- there aren't really any, but, you know, independents or Republicans who wanna run counter to Trump, they should feel at this point liberated to say things like, "Abolish ICE," and, "We need immigration reform," and all the things that had, had sort of frightened, uh, particularly moderate Democrats for the last, uh, decade and a half.

You shouldn't feel like those things are in any way off the table now because it's clear that there's a huge amount of dissatisfaction.

There's a window being created.

There's a lot of anger.

[laughs]

Your thoughts on that?

Yeah, so, um, from the kind of traditional political, analytical standpoint, uh, the idea that he is that much underwater on what used to be one of his sort of core issues, uh, is huge.

Uh, and obviously, I think that if you were giving advice to Democrats, or to any, or to r- if, um, there aren't really any, but, you know, independents or Republicans who wanna run counter to Trump, they should feel at this point, liberated to say things like, "Abolish ICE," and, "We need immigration reform," and all the things that had, had sort of frightened, uh, particularly moderate Democrats for the last, uh, decade and a half.

You shouldn't feel like those things are in any way off the table now, because it's clear that there's a huge amount of dissatisfaction.

There's a window being created.

There's a lot of anger.

So on that side, I would say, [lips smack] you know, the polling is a big green light to people to, I think, be bold, talk openly.

[laughing]