Yeah.

Yep.

And they're like, "Test this out, let us know if it's any good, and then if it is, we'll roll it out to everybody else, and you can teach them." So like I led my first digital transformation, if you will, my, my second day on the job.

I mean, I looked at the digitizer that I had next to me, and I played with onscreen takeoff, and it was way better, right? And so that was kind of the first jump into it.

So I, I took over onscreen takeoff first.

I took over our, our bid solici- solicitation platform second.

That was maybe a year or two later.

... really sell tech well to construction-minded people?

Every conversation I've had this year with folks in the industry is the input device is still broken.

Okay.

And it was doing earthwork, right? Cap- capturing the, the amount of earthwork that had been completed-

How do you get people to question what they've been doing for 20 years, especially when those people were often more experienced than you in the field? How do you work on that, especially when it comes to technology?

That was a real struggle, and something that we really had to learn on the fly because you're walking in, and at the time I was a pretty young engineer still, trying to walk in and say, "We're gonna change everything that you've learned how to do, and we're gonna make it different because it's better." And they're like, "No, I've been doing this for 20 years.

What do you think you're doing?" So step one in that whole methodology is empathy.

Help me understand, why do you do it this way, right? If you come in honoring what they do and the process that they've learned and grown up with, that honor first gets you some credibility.

And then you can take a step back, and you can talk about the constraints have changed, or the risk has changed, or the scale is different, and this is how we are adjusting based on how those things have changed.

But what's interesting, one of the things that I like to challenge people with now is let's take a look at the technology that we've been using for the last 15 to 20 years.

Some of the big platforms out there have been around for a little bit, but we haven't seen any gains in productivity, right? The productivity line remains flat.

I guess, what lessons are learned there, and who should have the final say on technology decisions, in your view?