Have you got any thoughts on what it's like now for small business operators in Australia?

Yeah, absolutely.

We, we talk with small businesses every day through, through our business, and we, we co-founded our, our marketing agency 22 years ago.

So what's, what's happening now, it, it ain't our first rodeo.

We, we've, we've had our business through the global financial cr- crisis, through COVID.

There's al- there's all sorts of things that get thrown at us, um, that, that seem insurmountable.

And, and I think at the moment, small businesses in Australia feel like that now.

Mm-hmm.