What do you think companies are trying to solve with a logo that a logo really can't?

So if you think about it, what a logo does is it gives us a visual reference for a company, and we put all of our interactions, all of the messages we've read, all of the pieces, all of our feelings, you know, like that truck that cut us off in traffic that had their logo on the side of the van.

We put all of that into l- a logo.

You know, the way our brains work is it's, you know, it's the, it's a short course.

That logo means that brand.

And so when people say, or when companies say they want a new logo, it means that there's probably some sort of underlying tension that they need to be looking at other pieces of that brand.

What did that teach you about the gap between building something good and communicating to others why that matters?

Originally, Trace products, I mean, you know, there was very much, you know, it's a supply chain issue.