What have you learned about the conditions that people need before they actually do change? Listen,

I've seen people do, as you say, I've seen people come in with basic skills and do the most, become CROs of our business.

You know what I'm saying to you? I've seen that happen.

I'm not sure it's as linear as defining every issue, but I think it is in the principles.

I think if people are led in a network that is positively seeded, that's purpose-built, I think if people feel safe to fail, or I think, as you know, my book, I say success is much more powerful, but if people feel safe to take chances, I think in a company that's consensus built, not dictatorial, you know, and I think your leader, like a parent, can make or break you.

If you're an under person who's holding you down, you know, I'm critical of big companies.

The structure dulls talent.

Who was there? Who was there in the fight?

Wh- where do you see the value in, in that?

Well, I mean, I'm always termed kind of the naive fool.

You know, r- rolling out of talk up the country.

You know, you and I kind of are, are, are journeymen in, in this issue.

Um, it's, it's very important that I'm, I'm completely aware of the negative issues, wherever it may be.

I'm an actuary by training.

That's our training, is risk management.

Can you please fix the water?

How do you see that paying out?

Well, you know, the bank has been absolutely remarkable beside the kind of move to profitability and the scale of what's been built.

The actual functionality of the bank, you know, the shared value model, the incentives, the structures, all of that has played out so well.

You know, on one hand, 70% of new members joining our bank, that's 1,000 people a day, are not discovery members at all.

You know, on the other hand, 75% of discovery members are not on the bank.

So the potential is remarkable, but the idea is a very powerful one.

Putting all the products onto the face of the bank brings all of the shared value, all of the vitality structures into one set of value.

Is that growth going to start slowing now, do you think?

What does a super bank then look like for the Discovery Group?

The bank was built on three ideas.

One is a shared value model where people get value for managing money, managing health, etc.

The second is a full service bank.

And the third is kind of digital AR database, so we can offer really different functionality at scale.

That has played out well and has created a unique opportunity.

I mean, we get 1,500 people a day buying into the bank, new clients, of which fully 70% are not Discovery members.

speaking of that vitality stack i want to take a look at the investment into vitality ai from a business perspective initially there was a smaller investment over the course of the year that investment grew to just shy of the 300 million rand mark take us through the importance of that component of the vitality business and how it fits into the broader group strategy

What does a super bank then look like for the Discovery Group?

The bank was built on, on, on three ideas.

One is our shared value model, where people get value for, for managing money, managing health, et cetera.

The second is a full service bank, and the third is kind of digital AI database, so we can offer really different functionality at scale.

That has played out well, and it's created a, a, a unique opportunity.

I mean, if we get 1,500 people a day buying into the bank, new clients, of which fully 70% are not Discovery members, so a thousand a day people joining the bank are not, have no product with Discovery.

So it's, it's offered a unique opportunity to bring all of our products together.

Take us through the importance of that component of the Vitality business and how it fits into the broader group strategy.

How do you see that paying out?

Well, you know, the bank has been absolutely remarkable beside the kind of move to profitability and the scale of what's been built.

The actual functionality of the bank, you know, the shared value model, the incentives, the structures, all of that has played out so well.

You know, on one hand, 70% of new members joining our bank, that's 1,000 people a day, are not discovery members at all.

You know, on the other hand, 75% of discovery members are not on the bank.

So the potential is remarkable, but the idea is a very powerful one.

Putting all the products onto the face of the bank brings all of the shared value, all of the vitality structures into one set of value.

The Discovery Bank increased its client base by 26, and there are other banks, obviously, and we've spoken before about competition.

Mm

... like you, I can see what the threats are.

The art is seeing the positive, you know, and that's, in fact, what life is about today.

In fact, it's about spotting opportunity.

So we're coded for negative.

You know, people say, "Why do-- why do newspapers and the, you know, radios, the media talk about the negative?" People don't-- aren't interested in the positive.

That's how we coded, right? That's why we're here.

Mm.

What's so important about this?

Well, you know, the book is about how to kind of multiply impact.

And one of the key principles is understanding how systems work because the whole book is about kind of we're miscoded and we kind of often make the wrong choices and decisions.

The Pareto tale, you know, the tale of that, the 80-20, the 20%, turns out that networks and systems are structured with a small number of things in the tale to determine the system.

And the breakthrough is the fact that our lives are a complex network.

In other words, the decisions and actions you take, there are millions of them that have no effect.

But there are few in the tail that determine your impact.

Why is optimism more rational than pessimism?

That urgency that I think has encapsulated you from, probably from day one.

Yeah, I, I don't quite know why that's the case, and I think there's a lot of research that shows success is about urgency, you know, about implicitly understanding the, the shortness of time.

I had that sense of urgency, you know.

So even in that product development anecdote you spoke about earlier, I was 22 or 23 at the time.

I kind of knew I don't have time to spend nine months in the actual evaluation department.

I've got to stay here, you know? So I, I don't know what, you know, that is inside me, you know, it's an impatience or whatever.

But I mean, again, uh, it's one of the issues where I see people who truly believe that they've got greatness in them, and I believe that to be true.

How does the Pareto tail then encapsulate the first three principles and then come this overarching principle in terms of very few decisions in our life are fundamental, and so make sure you make those big decisions really well?

Why did you become sort of so fixated on this idea of impact?

You know, we built our business on actually not a lot of capital.

You know, the business was started by raising capital as always, but it's been a story of quality of people and their talent.

And early in that journey, I became obsessed with this idea of there's greatness in people.

How do you bring that out in a way? And one of our values is liberate the best in our people.

So that was kind of a cornerstone of our thinking.

And I became kind of obsessed with this issue of how do you bring that greatness out in people? At our induction classes, on the early days, I'd ask people, is there greatness in you? Everyone believes there is.

What's the difference between being optimistic about something and having disciplined optimism?