Well, you

know...

In my opinion, if anybody...

Suppose someone does not take Baba as God, and he says, no, I take Jesus as God.

Doesn't matter.

If he carries out the...

I mean... instructions that Baba has given us or the life that Baba has designed for us to live, he lives that life and even if he is called Baba as Jesus, it doesn't matter.

you explain God Realization?

Sometimes I see people who plan something to the exact detail, and other times people are really apathetic and they don't do anything, they just say, it is Baba's

will.

It is Baba's will for us to be just a while away from time.

Is that it? Some say it like this.

Some say it like this.

It is Baba's will, so why should we do any work? Why should we work hard? We can just while away our time and it is Baba's will.

But that is really very wrong.

Go ahead if you're going to continue at the same time.

You talked about in Guru Prasad having a conviction of Baba as compared to knowing or having faith.

No, no, I never compared Noreena's faith with my conviction, nothing of the sort.

I mean, what is conviction? Conviction, yes.

One day, Baba, I think it was in 1956 or 1956, that Baba went and lived at Scarsdale, a suburb of New York, in that house.

And Ivy Deuce... 52.

52, yes, 52.

Ivy Deuce and Don Stephen had come.

What do we do, though? We know that, but...

[laughing]

-different moods in those days.

And it was all an expression of his inner spiritual work that he used to do, about which we see our mind can't reach.

We can really have-- cannot conceive of that work which he used to do.

But we could see all the signs and symptoms on his face and the expression.

From that, we could see that he was grossly, uh, occupied in doing some inner work.

And the expressions were in different forms, in different moods.

[laughing]

You see, in my case, the whole thing began with my mother, Gulmai.

You see, sh-she was my mother.

Gulmai was really responsible in turning me and all of our family to Baba because originally she used to go to Upasni Maharaj, and I too used to go to Upasni Maharaj, one of the masters of Baba.

Then Upasni Maharaj one day on his own told his disciples, about forty in number were present at Sakori, the abode of Upasni Maharaj, that, "I have given all my spiritual treasure to Baba, and that from now onwards, you should begin loving him, you should follow him, you should obey him, and you should stick to him through thick and thin." And you see, uh, since then, uh, we started thinking less and less of Upasni Maharaj and more and more of Baba.

But the greatest factor that, you see, was responsible in my being drawn to Baba was the exuberance of love that he gave.

Upasni Maharaj was called at our house to be present at the time of the housewarming ceremony of the new house, and along with me, Baba had come there at Ambattur.

[laughs]

By the time I had almost forgotten the girl, you see, Baba's influence, Baba's proximity, his love was so great that not only the girl, but any, every other friend that I had so far in my school and college days, I started thinking about every one of them less and less and less and less.

Do you think it's important to have disciplines like meditation or fasting?

Now there is one thing.

Discipline should be spontaneous.

Discipline should have a bearing on all the time of your life.

If there is a discipline like doing some yoga or some meditation or some practices, then it is really partial.

It does not cover all the time of man's waking consciousness, and it becomes a sort of a habit, and man gets caught into the habit.

There are many people who are so much involved in the way they should sit at one place to do the meditation, then actually the meditation and the love for God.

Is there any way of following like intuition more?

You

are much better than myself because some years ago, not only I would give inappropriate answers, but I could not give an answer at all.

And if I was confronted by five or six people, I used to be absolutely shivering my shoes, even to talk to them.

Not that I didn't want, but I couldn't.

One day in 1956, you see, when Baba came to New York, and there were a lot of press representatives that had come, New York Times and other things, and Baba asked me to go and talk to them.

And I felt very hesitated.

So He did like this.

is