But I think you're kind of taking a spin on family and getter worship, family, great church, that kind of thing and saying, what would it look like to have a family integrated business? So with the business you guys have, how is your approach different than a typical business owner?

Well, so it's kind of how I lay this out in the book, Chase, is that.

Somebody once said, you know, it's always attributed to like C.S. Lewis or Abraham Lincoln or somebody.

But the most the most dangerous ideas in a society are not the not the ones being argued, but the ones being being assumed.

And so as I kind of stepped out from 25 years of pastoral ministry through the through the lens of that perspective, walking with families from kind of small church or church plants or even one church that was awful large.

And so just kind of different contexts and cultures of church life, both in the Bible Belt and now in Utah and more of a pioneer field.

One of the things that you notice is families are just really fragmented.

So give me some examples of other things you've seen guys do.

Mm-hmm

... what it looks like to be grand- grandparents, um, when I take all those duties and responsibilities from scripture, um, [clears throat] what I never...

I- if I had a clean slate, I would never, I would never go to the Word, uh, and I would, I would see all of this pregnant household, you know, this, uh, it's just full of all of these things that I'm commanded to do, uh, as the head of my household.

Uh, and I, what I wouldn't do then is I wouldn't say, "Okay, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a career that takes me out of my home for 40, 50, 60, 70 hours a week.

My wife needs a career to take her out of the home for 40, 50, 60, 70 hours a week.

I'm going to find a place to put my children, you know, wherever that might be for the, that, all that time that we're all separated.

Grandparents are gonna be totally removed from the equation.

[dramatic sound] [gentle music]