Right

... convicted phone hacker, who's kind of been specializing in this stuff ever since, with the help of Hacked Off.

So much, so, the word hack appears so many times, [laughs] doesn't it? We can't need any more.

Hacked Off, the, uh, the sort of, uh, I like to re-refer to them as the anti-press campaigners, who were led for a while by Evan Harris, uh, the, uh, former Lib Dem MP.

Both Johnson and, uh, Evan Harris appeared in the witness box, um, at the Royal Courts of Justice last week, uh, and cleared up a few deta-details about that.

So, uh, specifically, uh, Gavin Burrows, who you might remember is the private detective who gave a witness statement to one side saying he'd been hacking and doing all sorts of illegal things on behalf of the Daily Mail, and then did a witness statement for the Daily Mail saying that he'd never done any of that, he'd never said that, and that that first witness statement was fake, and it wasn't his signature on it.

Uh, he got £75,000 from, uh, Graham Johnson.

And the Mail came into his sights because they did not accept this verdict as sensible.