But how did you take what I assume was a childhood passion and turn it into a professional career for as many years as you played?

Yeah, that's a good question, Buck.

So growing up playing rugby in New Zealand is kind of just a normal rite of passage childhood growing up.

We all play.

It got to a point where you come out of high school, you go through college, you're playing and People tend to keep playing as an adult, whereas sometimes in the States, once people go through college, they kind of give that sport up.

And especially when you live rurally in New Zealand, a sport like rugby is a way to get out in the community and catch up with friends and family.

other people just where, you know, a lot of places in New Zealand where we live, you're two or three hours from your next door neighbor or other parts of society.

Uh, I think that has to have, it has to lend to your success, but you know, what, what parts of your growth growing up led to that?