What does it look like as a doctoral student and now as a professor for you to just exist and try to do your work in this space as you write about gradually being stripped of its or being hollowed?

The tension that exists, again, it comes in this also moment.

It starts there.

And it starts there because also a moment is also a moment where for the first time the Palestinians will have some sort of economy, a tendency towards, it wasn't, of course, there's always classes in Palestine, but for instance, you didn't have in the 70s and 80s, consumer spaces that signify your class.

So despite the fact that there were classes, people had more money and there are people who own the means of production if you want or are petite bourgeois and others are workers and laborers and there are different set of skills.

But on the level of what is actually perceivable within at least the public domain, people couldn't differentiate themselves on the level, for instance, of consumerist products.

We had more consumerist experiences or having malls and having...

I

So could you walk us through that history, um, including how did that response to the First Intifada and the Oslo process produce the conditions in which today's accelerated settlement project became possible? But also, like, recent insurgency, including, um, how the lines then w- was dealt with as well.

This is a long history, but, um, I would, you know, um, first and foremost, if you want, place, uh, at the center of this analysis the confluences of, of various factors.

And I think, uh, one cannot really jump over, uh, the role of, uh, uh, betrayal in this history.

Uh, and, and by-- what I mean by that is that the fact that there is a col- coalition between a comprador Palestinian class that emerges, uh, from the ruins of the First Intifada, and from the ruins also of, uh, uh, the PLO that was stuck in Tunisia, very far away from Palestine, and, uh, Israel itself.

A coalition that, you know, uh, starts in the Oslo process itself, and, uh, takes different shapes and forms in the past three decades, but culminates, if you want, also in Palestinian Authority willingness to actually engage in a counterinsurgency campaign directly and militarily in the north of the West Bank, uh, uh, in the current historic conjuncture.

So that coalition, this, this, this role, if you want, of the Trojan horse within Palestinians is, is significant.

Of course, it doesn't come out of a simple, you know, uh, betrayal of one individual or two.

Do you, um, kind of like cut this, this fic- this two-state fiction as if that's like viable, that's a viable solution?

Do you think that there might be some more armed resistance or a chance of armed resistance being created in the West Bank?

Well, I mean, I think we are on the cusp of or there's a convergence of various crisis in the West Bank.

The first is an economic crisis.

Israel, since October 7th, has decided to not allow Palestinian laborers around a third of the Palestinian workforce from entering and working and laboring in Israel itself.

So people have been deprived from their income.

And there's a physical crisis facing the Palestinian Authority, also the biggest employer of Palestinians in the West Bank, specifically in the medical, health care, educational systems.

And a lot of the people who are employed in the West Bank or in the Palestinian Authority, I'm sorry, have not been receiving actually their full pay.

How do Palestinians manage to get or how can they maintain some economic life in this condition or how are they trying to? and if there was a position where there was a resistance movement in the west bank against the israeli occupation of the west bank against these attacks is there a way that they can receive supplies there's smuggling that takes place from jordan and so forth what's the lifeline currently for the west bank in terms of economic uh or other material support if there is one