Repeat your last sentence.

So what I said was, I want to ask a question.

There might be a big something that I'm missing in this, and I want an outside opinion.

So I've said this on my show for years, long before this controversy.

It was, you know, 25 controversies ago, and it could have been anything.

I don't understand why referees are not required to go to the podium after the game the way that players and coaches are.

Yeah.

Go fix it.

You can't say that about Alabama now.

No, I agree.

And, you know, you and I talked about it on my show this morning.

And, again, I'll make sure to clip it off so people can find that interview very easily tonight.

And, by the way, I'll make sure the interview runs after you get off air.

I can't be competing with you.

But, anyway, what was I going to say? Oh, there's something you and I talked about is, listen, and I'll say it so you don't have to.

And I wasn't trying to take shots at Coach Saban, but this coaching staff is deeper than what the last few years that Coach Saban put up.

Can they salvage something from the performance on Saturday or was that what a one-off?

Yeah, I think they can.

But I also think the opposite is true as well.

I don't know how you can look at the rest of the schedule and see a lot of definitive, there are no doubt about it.

LSU was bad, but this one's going to be 41-3.

I mean, like, I'm not even being sarcastic.

I mean, even North Carolina, like, they got dudes up front.

So how should we be assessing the Michigan performance?

Can they salvage something from the performance on Saturday or was that what a one-off?

Yeah, I think they can.

But I also think the opposite is true as well.

I don't know how you can look at the rest of the schedule and see a lot of definitive, there are no doubt about it.

LSU was bad, but this one's going to be 41-3.

I mean, like, I'm not even being sarcastic.

I mean, even North Carolina, like, they got dudes up front.

So how should we be assessing the Michigan performance?

you know slate on the back end to get some more data points for the college football playoff committee right because then you're you're crescendoing into the end of the season of the best 12 teams and you have some algorithm and some human subjectivity to help you find the best 12

well the problem is then is that everyone is going to skew the data however it benefits them you know um I mean, it's just the truth.

And, and, you know, you go back to a few years ago, you know, so two years ago, so last year, the big data point, you know, obviously involved BYU, but last year kind of turned into once BYU lost in the big 12 championship game, Notre Dame versus Miami.

But the year before it was a nine and three Alabama team versus an 11 and two SMU team and, and I don't remember all of the arguments at that point.

But what I do remember is that SMU had a pretty – basically, essentially an identical record or an identical resume, I should say, to some of the at-large candidates out of the SEC.

But nobody wanted to acknowledge it.

But the data points that we are told matter, top 25 wins, this, that, whatever it was, they matched up nicely.

you

you know slate on the back end to get some more data points for the college football playoff committee right because then you're you're crescendoing into the end of the season of the best 12 teams and you have some algorithm and some human subjectivity to help you find the best 12.

Well, the problem is, Ben, is that everyone is going to skew the data however it benefits them.

I mean, it's just the truth.

And you go back to a few years ago, so two years ago.

So last year, the big data point obviously involved BYU.

But last year kind of turned into once BYU lost in the Big 12 championship game, Notre Dame versus Miami.

But the year before, it was a 9-3 Alabama team versus an 11-2 SMU team.

Well,

At least right now.

Yes.

No.

And I'll tell you, I had the exact same thought that you did, is I have been hosting Fox Sports Radio, National Radio long enough to have done the let's not overreact to a training camp fight segment.

This is my eighth year at Fox Sports Radio, so I have done it for eight consecutive seasons.

Summers with that said I do think it's a little bit different when you're your best defensive player is going after the starting quarterback and I think there is a fine line of you don't want to take away from Max Crosby what makes him Max Crosby while also acknowledging that if you have any chance to be even like a little bit half decent.

We probably don't want to kill, and I'm using that metaphorically, we don't want to injure is probably the better way to put it.

So running backs getting paid brings a little tear

What do you think? No, I...

I think I've pivoted the deeper that I've gotten into this thought experiment because I was one forever.

I didn't think you should rush guys.

And then it was actually, it was ironic.

I was working with, I don't believe he works here anymore.

He may on the weekend.

Sometimes Bucky Brooks, who's still Sunday morning.

Well, you just want as much, quote, competition for your services as you can.

So it's the what's underneath the rest of it that I think Adam Silver and the NBA have great consternation of, which leads to the larger question is if you get to a point where you've got to make a huge decision, is part of that where Steve Ballmer no longer runs your Los Angeles Clippers?

There's a lot of layers to it, and it's so funny.

You think back to not only Kawhi signing there, and I've told the story a million times, but Kawhi literally signed with the Clippers during my wedding, so that was something I'll never forget.

It was 10 o'clock on the dance floor, and everyone's looking at their phone because of Woj bombs.

I think you guys were either on air or just getting off air because it was a Friday night.

But it's just crazy to think about where we were.

If you remember...

Well, that's good.

Who wins more?

Uh, I would probably lean- It's a great question because Ole Miss's schedule got much tougher, too.

And it was kind of interesting in the conversation about, you know, the, the Cignetti quotes from Thursday about this, that.

Everybody wants to point to, um, point to Indiana's schedule from a year ago.

You know, Ole Miss beat some really bad teams even in the SEC.

The stat that I threw out, of their seven SEC wins, six came against teams that either fired their coach or finished, uh, ineligible for a bowl game.

So in other words, 5-7 or worse.

Do you have one of those teams in mind?

Don't know what you've heard, but how do you evaluate this? You're in July now, and you're having these workouts, and you still don't have Rob Wright, the guy that can operate and pick and roll with them.

No, it's crazy.

It's so funny, Lee, because I don't know how long you've been doing this, but I remember, you know, I remember even two, three years ago, maybe not two, maybe not three years ago, but probably five, six years ago, it was like the season would end.

There'd be maybe one high profile recruit who had it committed.

You'd get a day or two of content out of that.

And then you'd hit basically like, The end of April, and there was no college sports content, and it just feels like every year the stakes are a little bit higher, the money's a little bit bigger.

You know, I think every program gets accustomed to a certain level of success, and it's not just BYU, it's Arkansas, it's Florida, it's whoever.

Like, I'm not even trying to be, you might not even be worth $3.5, but the market demands that.

Es tan divertido porque no sé cuánto tiempo has

estado haciendo esto, pero recuerdo, um, ya sabes, recuerdo incluso dos o tres años atrás, um, tal vez no dos, tal vez no tres años atrás, pero probablemente cinco o seis años atrás, era como si la temporada terminara, hubiera tal vez un reclutante de alto perfil que lo hubiera comitido, obtendrías un día o dos de contenido de eso, y luego saldrías básicamente como El fin de abril, y no había contenido de deportes colegiales, y se siente que cada año los precios son un poco más altos, el dinero es un poco más grande.

Creo que cada programa se acostuma a un cierto nivel de éxito, y no es solo BYU, es Arkansas, es Florida, es cualquiera.

Y no está ni empujando las fronteras, solo lleva un poco más tiempo para hacer las cosas que necesitas hacer.

Y, de nuevo, recuerdo, te daré un ejemplo, dos veranos atrás, que fue el verano en que Kevin Young obtuvo el trabajo, y obviamente Mark Pope fue a Kentucky, Calipari, Arkansas, todo eso.

Pero recuerdo, creo que me fui la semana después del Día de la Memoria.

Así que estamos hablando de enero de junio.

No estoy tratando de ser, quizás no sea valiente 3.5, pero el mercado exige eso.

So Aaron, which team that passed on Darius Acuff, do you think will regret having not taken him the most?

Well, you know, so I live in LA, um, and obviously I'm around more Lakers fans than Clippers fans, but I don't want to speak for everybody, but with the Clippers, I'm just not of the belief that unless you – the argument against taking Darius Acup if you're the Clippers is that you already have Darius Garland.

And I'm sorry, but, you know, I don't watch as much NBA as you guys, but the next team that's passing on potential all-stars because they're building around Darius Garland, you know, that GM is going to be hosting Fox Sports Radio with me on the weekends here pretty soon.

Because, like – You shouldn't be – and listen, maybe they just really believed in Keaton Wagler.

I like Keaton Wagler, but my argument is – Any player, any player that's not, you know, one of the, the, the Wendy, you know, joke.

It's like, we know who you build around in the NBA and who you don't.

And so I only bring it up because the Clippers, this notion that you, you have to draft a big guard because you have Darius Garland.

Let me know why I should be moving closer to being more positive than negative.

So Aaron, which team that passed on Darius Acuff, do you think will regret having not taken him the most?

Well, you know, so I live in LA, um, and obviously I'm around more Lakers fans than Clippers fans, but I don't want to speak for everybody, but with the Clippers, I'm just not of the belief that unless you – the argument against taking Darius Acup if you're the Clippers is that you already have Darius Garland.

And I'm sorry, but, you know, I don't watch as much NBA as you guys, but the next team that's passing on potential all-stars because they're building around Darius Garland, you know, that GM is going to be hosting Fox Sports Radio with me on the weekends here pretty soon.

Because, like – You shouldn't be – and listen, maybe they just really believed in Keaton Wagler.

I like Keaton Wagler, but my argument is – Any player, any player that's not, you know, one of the, the, the Wendy, you know, joke.

It's like, we know who you build around in the NBA and who you don't.

And so I only bring it up because the Clippers, this notion that you, you have to draft a big guard because you have Darius Garland.

Let me know why I should be moving closer to being more positive than negative.

My question marks are, does he have enough wiggle and burst to get those same shots off, getting by guys at the NBA level? What did you see from him, what worries you, and what do you think is gonna translate to the pros?

No, I think a lot of what you said is fair.

And I am...

So, little background on me.

I went to UConn, I grew up in Connecticut, and I was raised on Jim Calhoun basketball, which is baseline, e- everybody...

I, I...

Jim Calhoun would not recruit a guy that did not have a baseline level of athleticism, and he believed, "I can teach them the skill I..." But, but if you don't have the athleticism.

Give it to me.

Not that they're not paying them, but getting guys who will stick around.

Yeah, you know, it was interesting.

Uh, it, it was funny.

So, uh, uh, Dusty Mae's right-hand man is a guy by the name of Kyle Church, who's been with Dusty Mae since Florida Atlantic, and, and I know him a little bit, and I talked to him prior to the Arizona game on, on Thursday.

Well, on Saturday.

I talked to him on Thursday in the locker room.

But I, I bring it up because Dusty Mae said something about, you know, essentially that, you know, you still have to...

Yep.

What was the discourse in any conversations you had following the game or maybe even during the game when you saw how it was going to go? Like Did we realize Michigan was this good? Like, uh, what were people saying about this? Because this was one of the most dominant performances against a really good team that I've seen in a very long time.

Yeah, a couple things.

One, you know, Michigan in person may be the most impressive combination of baseline just incredible talent with all of the fundamentals that you need as well.

Like, it was crazy, the cutting, and the spacing, and the back cutting and the...

You know, th-there was one play I just vividly remember where some guy was kind of cutting across the lane.

He caught a pass, and then catches it and immediately shoots over a hard chest pass into the corner for a wide open three.

It might sound stupid, but, like, those are the things that you're taught, like, in the first grade, is, like, when you, when you pass the ball, you pass it.

Portal opens on Tuesday

be more analogies to run through, but the idea of you as a UConn alum and fan versus the journalist as you're watching it trying to manage those things, and we'll do the Coach K in a moment.

Well, no, and I'll tell you this.

The number of people that, to me, over— Really, since the bracket came out, but even over the last 24 hours that have mentioned to me either in passing or directly the exact point that you made, which was I took UConn in my bracket or I took UConn in my survivor pool or I didn't take Duke as far as others because I didn't trust the coaching.

I mean, I could literally name a dozen people that in the last two to three weeks have told me I do not trust the coaching.

And I think two things can be true.

You know, listen, if we're being fair to John Shire, in some ways the program is in better shape than when Coach K left.

You know, the recruiting certainly has not fallen off.

But the fact that the door was always cracked open because they did chip away over time, and then in those final moments, Duke didn't have the presence of mind to close it out.

And the situation's very similar.

Yeah.

Listen, I have certainly been one that has criticized John Shire.

What I will say, and again, I don't think the coaching point is bad from the perspective there were two players down court with no one basically back to defend, and obviously UConn was trying to trap, force a turnover.

Just because it didn't work out If Caden Boozer throws that ball a little bit higher, the game is over.

So it's really funny that Action Network found this, and it's obviously very ironic that Duke put it out.

I think you brought up a great point earlier in the show, Mike, in Hour 1. is that you kind of had to do so many things right and Duke had to do so many things wrong to get to the point where it came down to that one play.

So even if you are the in-house guy and a friend of the program and all of that, at some point that runs out.

... affect Bill Self? What was your whole read on this, uh, Darren Peterson season at Kansas?

So I'll try to just be brief so we can keep this conversational.

Um, so finally towards the end of the season, Darren Peterson did multiple interviews where he explained his version of things, which was that during summer workouts he got full body cramps that forced him to be hospitalized, okay? And so I think after that he was obviously psychologically, like, not sure, and that's a scary isolated...

uh, that's a scary incident, whatever.

My frustration from the beginning with that was you can't get a straight answer out of him, Bill Self, anybody at Kansas, right? So, a- and again, this is stuff I talked about, but the BYU game when he played Dabinski head-to-head, he has 20 or so points at halftime, pulls himself out, sitting on the sidelines.

People say he has cramps.

Steve, we've seen people with cramps for 30 years.

Right.

humanly possible in that moment but that was a microcosm of what the second half became because there were a lot of questions a lot of early shot clock three-point chucking and just getting out of sorts after what was a really entertaining close-knit first half

It was a great first half.

It was a great second half.

And I think they were up by, at one point, I think they went on like a 15-1 run early in the second half.

And so late in the game, I think where I noticed it was it was about a minute left and they were down by four.

and they were trying to take threes.

You know, they're running down the clock to take threes, and it's like, guys, you don't have to do this.

And look how you can go home again.

humanly possible in that moment but that was a microcosm of what the second half became because there were a lot of questions a lot of early shot clock three-point chucking and just getting out of sorts after what was a really entertaining close-knit first half

It was a great first half.

It was a great second half.

And I think they were up by, at one point, I think they went on like a 15-1 run early in the second half.

And so late in the game, I think where I noticed it was it was about a minute left and they were down by four.

and they were trying to take threes.

You know, they're running down the clock to take threes, and it's like, guys, you don't have to do this.

Here he is.

And look how you can go home again.

You can.

The departure from NC State was messy.

I think there's been...

I'm not defending how it all happened, but first of all, NIL is now legal.

And it was funny because there was a clip.

I don't know if it was when he got to campus, but there was a clip.

I mean, all world, sure.

I think rules is a term that might be too rigid for what we have right now, but the playing field, as it were.

I think Izzo actually had some quote to that effect of basically...

I still love doing it no matter how screwed up it is or I'm not going to give up on it because they need me to stay basically like, you know, we need people that actually still care about this.

I will say, I do think what it was was I think there were smart guys that got out realizing they wanted nothing to do with this new era.

Roy Williams, Jay Wright, Coach K, you brought them up.

Then I think there was a group of guys that tried to make it work, but all they did was complain.

That was like the Tony Bennett crew.

out? Do you think Gino was motivated by the success of Danny Hurley in the men's program? Because he went a decade with, you know, some final fours and it was all fine and good, but they hadn't raised the banner in a long

So we get Duke-UConn, and if you were to set it up before the tournament started, one versus two coming out of that bracket, yeah, it's chalky, but it's also – what you hope for, right? Pomp, circumstance, pageantry, history, plenty of montages of the game's greats going on the last 25 years plus from a coaching perspective as well as some of those players and the legend of Caravan grows.

Yeah, I tweeted out about it and somebody said, this will be like watching Iran versus China.

Can they both lose, please? Wow.

Dan Hurley certainly makes UConn.

If you're not a UConn fan, there's reason not to like him.

And Duke, I think the history there speaks for itself.

But I will say, listen, and Frostberg and I were talking about it during the break, is, listen, I love College Hoops.

You're tapped into all of this, and obviously we'll get the big convention when everybody gets together for the Final Four, but that's one that's just kind of hanging out there like a lead balloon right now.