And here's ways that we can help explain what's happening here by the law of Moses.

Yeah, yeah.

illustration or maybe introduction, I, I, I acknowledge like you can go back through most of, um, culture and find most, um, societies have rejected, um, murder and even gone so far as to say a murderer should be killed for murder.

But, um, by way of kind of bringing the people into the discussion, I acknowledged some conversations that have been had on college campuses and asking them why they thought murder was wrong.

And what was helpful is to realize, although all of us probably for the most part think murder is wrong, we all come to the foundation for why we think it's wrong differently.

So like some, um, college students are like, um, survival of the species you know so from some kind of evolutionary standpoint we need to approach this or the guilt i would feel feel if i murdered someone would be overwhelming to me and um you know i couldn't murder someone because i'd feel bad and so then the question is well what foundation is substantive enough to actually carry the weight of this command and so then leading into people created in the image of God is a sturdy enough foundation for us to hold on to this command.

So that was kind of how I introduced it and stepped into it.

How did you kind of get to Christ in both?

Okay, just tell us briefly how you came to know the Lord and how you got into vocational ministry.

So I grew up, my dad has been a Christian school principal most of my life until he retired a handful of years ago.

So grew up in the church with wonderful parents modeling the faith.

Young, came to Christ young, about nine years old it was.

Recall it pretty vividly.

I don't remember the message or anything, just it was God using the fear of hell to prick my young heart and have over the years more fully understood the gospel and the value of it.

But I remember that time my dad came up and prayed with me, um, in Rockford, Illinois.

When you got here, kind of in the vein of what John's talking about, how are you explaining what does this commandment mean? Any specific issues that kind of went along with it?