How did that happen? And when did you know it was right to make them be executive leadership versus middle management?

So, gosh, about 11 years ago, we read through the book Traction by Gina Wickman.

And that was a major catalyst for the business because it gave us the entrepreneurial operating system, right? EOS.

Okay.

And it allowed us to look at the business a little bit differently.

And that's when we really started growing up.

And so part of the book is creating the inner circle or the leadership team, right? So Joe and I kind of looked at the business.

Even if he was willing, the act of actually relinquishing was a hard thing for him to