ValuationPodcast.com - A podcast about all things Business + Valuation.
Jun 3, 2026 · 1 hr 1 min · 13 segments
Hi, welcome back to ValuationPodcast.com — a podcast and video series about all things related to business and valuation. I’m Melissa Gragg, a financial mediator and business valuation expert in St…
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David C. BarnettGuest
Melissa GraggHost
Well, and it's interesting because we are trying to talk about kind of the lower and middle market from a deal perspective or mergers and acquisitions perspective.

And I would say that most people do not really understand that there are a lot of different markets that people, um, I would say could fall into, right, as a business owner.

But a lot of times when people are talking about deals, they're talking about these big deals like, you know, Cisco or, um, Microsoft or, you know, the tech firms going back and forth.

But most people that own businesses are probably have a business that could be valued under 10 million or even under 50 million, which gets us into this market that we're talking about.

So maybe you could help us out in understanding, like, what is the definition of kind of the lower middle market and the deals that we're talking about for this conversation, and then what have you seen happening in that market currently?

I think it's, I think it's great because some of the people that I meet in the course of my work will come in with certain expectations or understandings that they've picked up from different media, articles, books that they've read, et cetera, and they don't really get that things operate in a different way in different parts of the, the market for businesses based on the size of these companies.

And here's the frustrating part, is I don't think you can really find anywhere definitive, uh, sort of break points between these different categories.

The, the way that I like to describe it, it, the place where I do most of my work is in the main street, which I describe as, as businesses with a cash flow under half a million of EBITDA.

Now, if you, if you think about that, that could be a business with 10 million in revenue, but if their net is only 500,000, then they're in that main street space.

Uh, so I call businesses smaller than that main street, and then I get into the lower mid-market by dragging that line up to about a million, 1.3-ish of EBITDA.

And what characterizes most of these businesses is that most of the time their owner is their primary manager, so you've got the presence of ownership in the business itself.

They're often characterized by very limited layers of middle management, so the owner might be one person removed from frontline employees or maybe two people, depending, right? But they're primarily what we might consider those family-owned businesses or small businesses with a few dozen or up to 50 or so employees generally.

And so they're, the ownership is often mixed up with some emotions when it comes to the business and how the business is run and how the deal might be made to buy or sell it.

And so a lot of the times I kind of say it's like if you wanna compare it to the world of real estate, it's sort of like mixing up the numbers from commercial real estate with the feelings and emotions from the residential real estate.

But you got kind of both of these things going on at the same time, and you've got people that are, uh, behaving or reacting to things, sometimes in a logical way, but sometimes in an emotional way.

And so it, it can create an interesting kind of space to be doing deals between people.

Well, and I think that, you know, most people don't really understand that there are different...

Well, and it's interesting because we are trying to talk about kind of the lower and middle market from a deal perspective or mergers and acquisitions perspective.

And I would say that most people do not really understand that there are a lot of different markets that people, um, I would say could fall into, right, as a business owner.

But a lot of times when people are talking about deals, they're talking about these big deals like, you know, Cisco or, um, Microsoft or, you know, the tech firms going back and forth.

But most people that own businesses are probably have a business that could be valued under 10 million or even under 50 million, which gets us into this market that we're talking about.

So maybe you could help us out in understanding, like, what is the definition of kind of the lower middle market and the deals that we're talking about for this conversation, and then what have you seen happening in that market currently?

I think it's, I think it's great because some of the people that I meet in the course of my work will come in with certain expectations or understandings that they've picked up from different media, articles, books that they've read, et cetera, and they don't really get that things operate in a different way in different parts of the, the market for businesses based on the size of these companies.

And here's the frustrating part, is I don't think you can really find anywhere definitive, uh, sort of break points between these different categories.

The, the way that I like to describe it, it, the place where I do most of my work is in the main street, which I describe as, as businesses with a cash flow under half a million of EBITDA.

Now, if you, if you think about that, that could be a business with 10 million in revenue, but if their net is only 500,000, then they're in that main street space.

Uh, so I call businesses smaller than that main street, and then I get into the lower mid-market by dragging that line up to about a million, 1.3-ish of EBITDA.

And what characterizes most of these businesses is that most of the time their owner is their primary manager, so you've got the presence of ownership in the business itself.

They're often characterized by very limited layers of middle management, so the owner might be one person removed from frontline employees or maybe two people, depending, right? But they're primarily what we might consider those family-owned businesses or small businesses with a few dozen or up to 50 or so employees generally.

And so they're, the ownership is often mixed up with some emotions when it comes to the business and how the business is run and how the deal might be made to buy or sell it.

And so a lot of the times I kind of say it's like if you wanna compare it to the world of real estate, it's sort of like mixing up the numbers from commercial real estate with the feelings and emotions from the residential real estate.

But you got kind of both of these things going on at the same time, and you've got people that are, uh, behaving or reacting to things, sometimes in a logical way, but sometimes in an emotional way.

And so it, it can create an interesting kind of space to be doing deals between people.

Well, and I think that, you know, most people don't really understand that there are different...
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