111 • JARRETT FULLER

Yeah, it's really fascinating and what I've noticed about your podcast throughout the years is that you began by interviewing, a lot of your conversations were centered around graphic design and I feel like the last couple of years they've sort of the door has widened and now you're interviewing, you know, urban planners and architects and educators and so on.

And I've always been a little bit, you know, when Debbie Millman started to interview like musicians and other people, I'm like, all right, it's no longer, you know, design matters.

It's something else now.

And I used to be a of that, but I'm noticing that I'm getting to a point where sort of I've I've seen kind of the limits of what a graphic design conversation can be.

And I'm starting to think about like, all right, what happens if I talk with an architect or other people that are also in creative disciplines? So for you, what were some of your how has the term graphic design shifted and evolved for you?

Yeah, let me say one thing first, if that's okay, and then I'll answer your question, because I totally get that feeling that you describe in this sort of expansion.

And I know that was not a critique of the show or a critique of the expansion, but if I can...

What's interesting to me is I'm still me.

Maybe this is another way of answering the previous question.

And I'm still a graphic designer.

And so what's interesting to me is what does it mean for a graphic designer to be talking to an architect or a graphic designer to be talking to a music industry executive like I did on the show last time? And to talk to them about design, to talk to them about the questions that I'm interested in.

And so one of the interesting challenges for the show for me is how far can I push those borders of what a scratching the surface interview is? It is rooted in graphic design.

It comes from somebody who still identifies as a graphic designer.

And how can I talk to people who are not graphic designers, but it's still feel like it's part of the show.

And I don't have that resolved, but that's something you saying that that's something that's on my mind a lot, especially I'm, I'm on a hiatus for the summer and I'm always thinking about who I want to talk to you next.

And I'm always trying to find like, where, what are those borders there? And I, I say all that to say, that's also the way that my understanding of graphic design has changed to actually answer your question specifically, because I think.

do i say this what's interesting to me about the term graphic design is that if you look at the history of graphic design you look at the history of graphic designers and the work graphic designers have done there is also a history of graphic designers being uncomfortable with that term graphic design there there is a history of designers looking for other terms it comes out of this title of commercial artist or commercial art.

Their early graphic design programs were often called like advertising design.

There's people who call themselves visual designers.

I went to an undergraduate program that was called communication design.

And there's always this sort of search for these other terms.

And I really like the term graphic design, and I will plant my flag in the ground to retain that term as a term and a title and a field that is really, really expansive.

I think often when we think about graphic design, we think about text and image probably as the core tools that we use, and I think that's fine.

But when we think about this term graphic, we often use that term to mean visual.

And I'm really interested in the wider definition of the word graphic, you know, comes from the Latin word grafis, this idea of writing, of inscribing, of giving shape to something.