Thinking the Unthinkable with Nik Gowing
Sep 9, 2026 · 22 min · 9 segments
The positive direction of travel must be recognised and celebrated. Julie Baddeley, Chair of the Chapter Zero Alliance, returns to Thinking the Unthinkable to catch up with Nik Gowing. Since…
Julie BaddeleyGuest
Nick GowingHost
I'm interested in your view on perceptions because one of the things I know you think very strongly, investing now is far less costly than trying to fix things later.
That is not something which has been underlining itself within the debate about sustainability.
Now you seem to be saying that your members have realized they've got to do it now rather than leaving it for the off chance that something could be done in, say, 10 years' time.
We need to invest now because actually the cost of failing in this transition will be far, far greater.
The canary in the coal mine will be, and already is, the insurance business because there's already massive claims.
That's an early-ish indicator, although Climate change has been around for decades, I know, but it's really coming to the fore as we see these changes.
How much do you think, therefore, that what you're doing is redefining significantly the word resilience, understanding resilience of companies, resilience of supply chains, and having to approach all of this in a very different way, particularly if, as you've just said, insurance is maybe no longer available simply because the risks are too great?
It's very much about resilience, but it's resilience in a sort of broad sense.
It's not just, you know, let's look at the risks and see how we mitigate them.
Because if business lines are going to be under threat, then new business lines need to come in to take their place.
What our members are finding is there's a sort of balanced conversation here between the whole risk dimension and the opportunity.
And risk is increasingly being understood in terms of what that could mean and the threats that it might pose.
But equally, this whole transition to this new economy that we have to have is creating opportunities for new product lines.
I'm interested in your view on perceptions because one of the things I know you think very strongly, investing now is far less costly than trying to fix things later.
That is not something which has been underlining itself within the debate about sustainability.
Now you seem to be saying that your members have realized they've got to do it now rather than leaving it for the off chance that something could be done in, say, 10 years' time.
We need to invest now because actually the cost of failing in this transition will be far, far greater.
The canary in the coal mine will be, and already is, the insurance business because there's already massive claims.
That's an early-ish indicator, although Climate change has been around for decades, I know, but it's really coming to the fore as we see these changes.
How much do you think, therefore, that what you're doing is redefining significantly the word resilience, understanding resilience of companies, resilience of supply chains, and having to approach all of this in a very different way, particularly if, as you've just said, insurance is maybe no longer available simply because the risks are too great?
It's very much about resilience, but it's resilience in a sort of broad sense.
It's not just, you know, let's look at the risks and see how we mitigate them.
Because if business lines are going to be under threat, then new business lines need to come in to take their place.
What our members are finding is there's a sort of balanced conversation here between the whole risk dimension and the opportunity.
And risk is increasingly being understood in terms of what that could mean and the threats that it might pose.
But equally, this whole transition to this new economy that we have to have is creating opportunities for new product lines.
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