Chulin 124 חולין דף קכד

We're just talking about the 13th line with the words So the Gemara just mentioned the case of an oven that had become Tomei and the way to retire it is to divide it into three.

That's what the Gemara tells us.

That has to be divided into three and the key over here is three parts, not two, because it's divided into two parts.

That means that one of those is for sure Rive of the Oven.

Since we have Rive of the Tomei Oven left, that means it's still Tomei.

So that's what's going on in this.

Remember we have a Stira.

in the beginning stages it has to be and its remnants are meaning in order for an oven to be in the first place it has to be at least a minimum of and by that same token if it became and now he wants to minimize it it has to be minimized under if he minimizes it up until it's still considered one was said only with a large oven with a small one we should take more even in the beginning stage for it to be considered an oven so that it could be makabotoma, it just has to be a kol shehu, that's from when its molacha was finished, it has to be finished and fired up and made strong, and shiar of berubai, the remnants of the oven, meaning in order for it to not be makabotoma, it's raiv, but if we still have raiv, then it's tamei, and just a clarification before we ask the question, v'kaam a kol shehu, how much is this kol shehu we just mentioned, even just an oven that's a tefach, why is that? that the oven's used by little girls, like plate ovens and whatnot.

Those are even in Tafach.

So we see that even in a tiny little oven of a Tafach has a din of an oven and it can be Macabre Tomah.

Now, bottom line, what's the question? It's good from here.

The reason why the oven is still Tameh is because we still have four Tavachim, even though it's just the remnants of the oven.

It was broken down until four Tavachim.

It's still Macabre Tomah because it's not less than that.

But if the shiarim, if the leftovers of this oven, after it's been broken, are not fortfachim, so then it's tahar.

But the problem is that we said before, as we started out the gemara with, that we need to cut into three pieces so that none is roiv.

Mashma, that it's roiv of the oven, which is a problem, regardless of dalut fachim.

But here we just said that as long as it's less than fortfachim, that's fine, even if it is roiv.

So it's a stira.

I think it's like, well, the answer is no, Amri.

They said, Hassam, over there, that which we just said, that it has to be less than four, and now it's not Tomei, that's the Tzalkim Mitzlach.

That's referring to cutting the pieces width-wise or horizontally, and when they're cut like that, so they don't rest properly, they're not stable, and so as long as they're less than four Tvachim, even if it happens to be Rive, that's not a problem, it still loses its Din of Tumah.

But over here, when we said it has to be Rive, that's referring to where it cut it lengthwise, so here it's very stable, therefore the only way to get it to lose its Din of Tumah is if it's less than Rive.

Can you discuss this? Ahamara just stated, the remnants of the oven are Rive, meaning if he still has Rive of the oven left, it's still considered Tameh.

Rive of an oven, what exactly would that be used for? This statement of shiar of berubah seems to be going on this tiny little oven that we just mentioned of a tafach, and therefore we're having a hard time understanding what does that mean, shiar of berubah? You have a little mini oven that's a tafach, it became taameh, you broke it, but you still have ra'iv of it, so it's still makabotomachah, it's still usable.

What could you use such a tiny little mini half-broken oven for? So our rabbi, he answers that, no, they're the remnants of a large oven, that's the rive.

Meaning, if you still have the rive of a large oven intact, then it's still makabotoma.

In other words, it's not referring to this tiny little oven.

As in more of Amri Rabbanon, the Rabbanon just said before, Then we're talking about a large oven, you only have to make it less than four tfachem, not rive.

more answers like kasha there's no problem when we said we only have to make it less than ruiv that's referring to an oven which is nine tfachim so as long as it's minimized to less than ruiv even though that's more than four tfachim not a problem it loses din of tomah whereas when we said dafka four tfachim that's talking about an oven of seven tfachim Now we go back to something we discussed on the previous Amud, that when a person has an atomic garment and he tears it, so if he didn't tear it completely, rather he left the mount of a kerchief, what the din over there is, is that considered tearing the whole thing or no? We have another Lashon in what the discussion was.

We're just talking about the 13th line with the words So the Gemara just mentioned the case of an oven that had become Tomei and the way to retire it is to divide it into three.

That's what the Gemara tells us.

That has to be divided into three and the key over here is three parts, not two, because it's divided into two parts.

That means that one of those is for sure Rive of the Oven.

Since we have Rive of the Tomei Oven left, that means it's still Tomei.

So that's what's going on in this.

Remember we have a Stira.

in the beginning stages it has to be and its remnants are meaning in order for an oven to be in the first place it has to be at least a minimum of and by that same token if it became and now he wants to minimize it it has to be minimized under if he minimizes it up until it's still considered one was said only with a large oven with a small one we should take more even in the beginning stage for it to be considered an oven so that it could be makabotoma, it just has to be a kol shehu, that's from when its molacha was finished, it has to be finished and fired up and made strong, and shiar of berubai, the remnants of the oven, meaning in order for it to not be makabotoma, it's raiv, but if we still have raiv, then it's tamei, and just a clarification before we ask the question, v'kaam a kol shehu, how much is this kol shehu we just mentioned, even just an oven that's a tefach, why is that? that the oven's used by little girls, like plate ovens and whatnot.

Those are even in Tafach.

So we see that even in a tiny little oven of a Tafach has a din of an oven and it can be Macabre Tomah.

Now, bottom line, what's the question? It's good from here.

The reason why the oven is still Tameh is because we still have four Tavachim, even though it's just the remnants of the oven.

It was broken down until four Tavachim.

It's still Macabre Tomah because it's not less than that.

But if the shiarim, if the leftovers of this oven, after it's been broken, are not fortfachim, so then it's tahar.

But the problem is that we said before, as we started out the gemara with, that we need to cut into three pieces so that none is roiv.

Mashma, that it's roiv of the oven, which is a problem, regardless of dalut fachim.

But here we just said that as long as it's less than fortfachim, that's fine, even if it is roiv.

So it's a stira.

I think it's like, well, the answer is no, Amri.

They said, Hassam, over there, that which we just said, that it has to be less than four, and now it's not Tomei, that's the Tzalkim Mitzlach.

That's referring to cutting the pieces width-wise or horizontally, and when they're cut like that, so they don't rest properly, they're not stable, and so as long as they're less than four Tvachim, even if it happens to be Rive, that's not a problem, it still loses its Din of Tumah.

But over here, when we said it has to be Rive, that's referring to where it cut it lengthwise, so here it's very stable, therefore the only way to get it to lose its Din of Tumah is if it's less than Rive.

Can you discuss this? Ahamara just stated, the remnants of the oven are Rive, meaning if he still has Rive of the oven left, it's still considered Tameh.

Rive of an oven, what exactly would that be used for? This statement of shiar of berubah seems to be going on this tiny little oven that we just mentioned of a tafach, and therefore we're having a hard time understanding what does that mean, shiar of berubah? You have a little mini oven that's a tafach, it became taameh, you broke it, but you still have ra'iv of it, so it's still makabotomachah, it's still usable.

What could you use such a tiny little mini half-broken oven for? So our rabbi, he answers that, no, they're the remnants of a large oven, that's the rive.

Meaning, if you still have the rive of a large oven intact, then it's still makabotoma.

In other words, it's not referring to this tiny little oven.

As in more of Amri Rabbanon, the Rabbanon just said before, Then we're talking about a large oven, you only have to make it less than four tfachem, not rive.

more answers like kasha there's no problem when we said we only have to make it less than ruiv that's referring to an oven which is nine tfachim so as long as it's minimized to less than ruiv even though that's more than four tfachim not a problem it loses din of tomah whereas when we said dafka four tfachim that's talking about an oven of seven tfachim Now we go back to something we discussed on the previous Amud, that when a person has an atomic garment and he tears it, so if he didn't tear it completely, rather he left the mount of a kerchief, what the din over there is, is that considered tearing the whole thing or no? We have another Lashon in what the discussion was.